Victoria 3

Victoria 3

The Great War
tenthousandimmortals 2023 年 1 月 12 日 下午 10:09
Balance
Is it me or is the Mobile Warfare just better than everything else?
The other doctrines don't seem to be that helpful.

1.) Offense is much more precious than defense. You get several bonuses to defense from the research tree and its the offense you are always lacking.
2.) The bonuses are really tiny for most of the other options. The Superior Firepower offense and defense buffs are very low so the only real benefit is the morale damage and maybe kill rate. I remain unconvinced that this is worthwhile.
3.) As the player, you will be attacking. Therefore you probably need offense more than defense. Even when fighting another power, you still need to invade them to peace out. You literally cannot "win" with defense alone. This is especially true if you have a land bridge.

I believe that the military education is similarly unbalanced. The War College seems to be significantly better than the other options.

1.) I don't see how to increase the max military school investment. It seems to me that you can't really get more levels. In that case, the bonuses listed in the descriptions are basically all you are going to get. The School of Infantry and Cavalry will give 2 times a 2.5% bonus for 5% total. That is the only one that is competitive with the War College. However, I am not sure that the bonus is large enough to actually mean something. I would much rather get the 8 extra offense from the additional doctrine level. That bonus by itself is worth more than a 5% increase.

2.) Once again, bonuses are not that great from the other options. The artillery gives 3% (total likely 6%) weekly military innovation. I don't think this bonus is worth the bureaucracy cost not to mention compete. Same thing for military academy. The bonuses seem rather small. While I do appreciate the extra barracks level, the education level is similarly rather small. I actually play Japan a lot and would actually rather take the barracks over the education bonus but still.

Can we also get some bonuses for NCO training? I mean, yeah, it does not have the +100% blunder chance, but its not really providing much of value compared to the other options. The commission by merit just seems superior in every way. The subsidized version is so good that you wonder why NCO training is even an option.
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Themos  [开发者] 2023 年 1 月 13 日 上午 10:55 
Hey first of all thanks for the feedback and glad that you are enjoying the mod!


1)Well Mobile warfare is sort of supposed to best on strictly offensive wars as it is sorf of the only thing that it improves. It's the glass cannon of the bunch.
2)Sadly there are only few military modifiers at the moment in vicky so making all four of them distinctively different from each other and viable is tricky. But I could try to buff the other options a bit and see how it goes.
3) Mod is also developed with multiplayer in mind where I guess defense is little more valuable than in singleplayer though I do agree that offense is still overall better regardless.


1)You can increase military school institution by either having commission by merit or subsidized commissions and then there is also one tech in that gives +1 on it. So you can get War College to max and others to 4.
2) I wouldn't necessarily agree that war college is that much stronger than the others as it essentially only gives you higher chance on low chance battle conditions and extra doctrine investment (which you can get with techs as well). But I suppose other military school options could use some slight buffs.

Regarding NCO It does not have the extra 25% military wages compared to subsidized commissions and compared to commission by merit it has much easier time promoting pops to officer status as merit still has quite significant penalty on qualification on non aristocrat/capitalist pops and morale reduction is not bad.
tenthousandimmortals 2023 年 1 月 13 日 下午 5:03 
First of all, once again I wanted to thank you for making the mod. I have made some mods (not published) that I use with friends so I generally understand the work required. Haven't modded for Victoria yet, just Stellaris, EU4, and HOI4.

The multiplayer aspects makes sense. However, how useful is defense really? I am genuinely curious. I play singleplayer and defense is worse than useless. If you are a large power and have higher offense, you just always go on the offense. It seems much easier to get war support down by invading a country than it deciding to peace out. The main belligerent has a cap anyway which means you can't reduce their war support until you physically control their capital (or maybe the claimed territory). I have gone whole games where I just put all my generals on offense and wait.

For the War College, I think it is great. However, its more that the other bonuses are so small. If you have the mobile warfare and get the war college, the extra slot for doctrine gets you an additional +8 offense. I would take that bonus alone above most of the other bonuses combined.
If I get the NCO, I only get 2 levels of the school at the beginning (until the tech you mentioned). So [with Infantry/Cavalry] the maximum 5% offense bonus is really not that great. Maybe at 7.5% it is starting to make a difference, but I still think the extra doctrine level by itself (paired with mobile warfare) is stronger. Notice that I am not even mentioning the war college added battle condition chance as I don't know how good those are.

Speaking of the NCO. I would recommend adding the school level as well. As of right now, if you have a lot of money, you go for the subsidized commission as it is just so so good. If you don't have money, you can just go for the merit one. I don't see as much use from the NCO, especially since it is penalized by not having the extra slot/lvl of the school.

Question, how bad is the qualifications penalty in VIC3? I have played a lot of campaigns, and I have only rarely encountered this problem. Maybe because I am playing a modded campaign, I have better qualifications or something. While I have had the problem with not enough officers, this has not been common enough yet for me. Is the problem common? I am asking because I am trying to figure out how good the bonus is. I have yet had the problem so bad that the subsidized merit didn't fix it. In other words, I have not been in a situation yet where NCO's bonus in qualifications made a difference.

Is the morale bonus 10%? I believe I saw that in the description before. I am currently using a mod that gives a childbirth institution and it seems to specifically override that part of the bonus for NCO. I basically have NCO giving nothing but the qualifications and not having the +100% blunder that you start out with.

Does the warplan doctrine have a morale bonus as well? I think I saw that as well but it may also be overriden in my games.

Either way, I would suggest slight bonuses to the schools, slight bonus for NCO. I think the doctrines are the most balanced out of the three. Might suggest some more tweaking, I will let you know.

One of the big Vic3 challenges is that flat bonuses are just so much better than % bonuses. This is because I always run a popular military IG (so +30% offense) and try to get commanders with another +30% offense. That way, a +10 flat offense actually gives me +16 offense. Meanwhile, since the base offense was like 80, a 10% bonus only gives me +8 additional offense. The flat bonuses are just so much better.
最后由 tenthousandimmortals 编辑于; 2023 年 1 月 13 日 下午 5:11
Themos  [开发者] 2023 年 1 月 14 日 上午 8:43 
You can win defensive wars with good defense by grinding down opposing armies troops and then raising their war exhaustion so it's definitely not useless. Also defending against naval invasions is very important in MP so that's a great use for high defense too. But yeah I can understand going just full on offense against AI since it is not that great at warfare unfortunately.

So qualification penalty is moved in the mod from peasant levies to purchased commissions which is multiplier of 0.1 to pops that are not either aristocrats or capitalists. on top that Aristocrats have 5 multiplayer on default. So other pops don't really promote to officers at all with that law. Now Commission by Merit decreases that penalty to 0.25 so you might get some pops to promote but it can still be fairly difficult. Subsidized Commission instead makes it multiplayer of 5 so now all pop types have equal chance of promoting apart from capitalists. In NCO there is no penalty and multiplayer is 10 but it is only directed towards soldiers.

Are you playing on older version? Morale loss modifier was only added in the latest patch. That would explain why those modifiers are not working for you. And yeah NCO has -10% morale loss bonus and Grand Battleplan has -5% per institution so -25% at max. So NCO should be pretty decent option to subsidized one with the morale loss. Though I am not sure how morale bonuses compare to offense/defense bonuses as testing army modifiers is kinda pain in the ass compared to something like EU4.
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