@Slash. The Grenadiers are there to force a retreat. Otherwise a single row of riflemen would be able to hold the line. Snipers Turrets and Mechs can be used to counter them. I sadly cannot update the map with new dlc units as I would need to redo the whole map to do that.

Fun until the Plasma Grenadiers show up - no way to counter them with the limited forces you get. Should be able to at least build a couple of Ballistic Missle Turrets to deter against the Grenadiers, or be able to build Sledgehammers.

@leviathan

The way the spawning and path-finding works in the map is a tad limited. I've dozens of test plays and the current version is pretty much the best balance I was able to achieve.

Grenadiers are currently restricted to about 5 of them every like 5 waves. I had to manually spawn them because in the old version when the AI could spawn them they were really being spammed like crazy but I feel like the map is too easy if I don't include them.

Tankers I don't control how many of them spawn, I give the AI a set amount of supply and it decides what to spend that supply on so sometimes you get only 2-3 tankers the entire run and sometimes you get over 20.

I've been debating making some adjustments now that the dlc added more options maybe I will take another look at it sometime soon.

Fun map, but the grenadier spam is a bit much, perhaps spread them out over the waves a bit more?

Sad to say Aragorn didn't make it cause he got stuck defending the high ground and the grenadiers got him.


I've noticed that units tend to get stuck on each other a bit much, I had 5 tankers occupying the same square cm, perhaps widening the high ground by 1 square on both the north/south walkways and a bigger gate for the high ground should alleviate these issues and give the bugs a better chance?

Losing the outpost due to the hive spawning there was a nasty surprise, but the bugs can't leave the compound due to the fat tanker increases the amount of units on the map, causing some lag issues. Idk if the trigger that spawns it doesn't have a set path or if the units just block each other.
Perhaps replacing it with royal guards might help?

The bombardiers charging the water-grate recreating an iconic movie scene was marvelous :).

Definitely one of the more creative maps

I did a few more test runs and I am pretty satisfied with how it runs right now. If anyone has any problems of you think it's still too difficult let me know.

I did a few tweaks if somebody could give me some feedback that would be great. It might still be a little to Hard cause I actually failed to win a few times but I don't have any more time to spend on this at the moment. Maybe in a few days I can try to take another look and do some more test.

@Telescope
I've actually been thinking about taking another look at this. I think you're probably correct I need to reduce the amount of plasma bombardiers. I'll see what I can do tonight.

would recommend lowering difficult by a click or two

Man I cannot keep up with the amount of plasma they throw, theres no way I can move my guys out of the way quick enough across the entire map.

Thanks for the map. I was doing very well until the granadier spam, which I think it some over the top, but yea its hard to make the map difficult with such defences avaible

I loved the map, but did not like the game design. It is a boring siege in which the enemy has artillery but the defender lacks the rapid response counter attack units to create chaos across the map. I also found the sniper trick, but that is not my style. Again the unit limiting was a no for me. Thanks for the map.

@robert129 try the hard mode and let me know what you think.

not bad, and not that hard. Snipers on grenadiers make it a cakewalk to hold the mine towards the end. Just unfortunate that some of my units get stuck, probably due to too many units on the map. Especially when the ones stuck are my engineers

i've had this happen to me a couple of time once in the campaign i think the units not obeying orders is a problem with the game itself not the map havn't fiqured out the cause yet myself but it is very annoying

Did a new run today, but like I said I started fresh, didn't unsubscribe then re-subscribe, no clue if that makes a difference. The grenadiers getting stuck didn't happen again, though the western gate was destroyed before I had to abandon the middle. I did run into that frozen bug again, all e-pulse troopers and the flamethrowers not at higher elevation. Same thing, ownership didn't change, I just couldn't move them. It may just be the game and may just happen to me, so if you can't duplicate it, then no need to worry about it. I've made a few scenario's myself now, I know how difficult and time consuming it is to tweak them. Still a solid mission though, keep up the good word.

Did a small update today to try and optimise that but during my 5-6 test runs I was unable to replicate your issue.

But when I tried to right click to place them/move them anywhere, they just stood there. I loaded the save that was at the start of the last night wave to see if it happened again and it did. I also spawned more e-pulse troopers from then on, could move them like normal, but something caused almost all of those 2 to no longer move position. Stopped there after it happened the second time, definitely happened immediately after the lighting changed, several of them were moving and just stopped in their tracks, maybe check the trigger that controls that? (had to spread across 3 comments, sorry for length)

Don't know if this was due to the game or scenario. I made it to daylight where you get reinforcements, as soon as the lighting changed from night to noon/dawn, almost all of my troops spread across the wall froze. The troops on the right at a higher elevation weren't affected, the marauders, snipers, and radio operators didn't seem to be affected. But all but 1 of my flamethrowers and all e-pulse troopers were frozen. I could still select them & see the usual window commands, their abilities, priority targeting, etc.

so I tested it again after you updated. Didn't un & then re-subscribe, just launched and assumed it pulled in the update. So, once I abandoned the middle base and they were overrun, the first wave after the grenadiers got stuck again. Send some snipers to kill and keep the waves moving. Like you said, I had both gates to the main wall closed, after killing the grenadiers, I opened & kept open the left gate on the wall on ground level, never happened again. Didn't get a chance to test if that was the cause. However, unfortunately, i ran into a worse bug

There is a progress bar on the top left I never timed it exactly but I believe it takes a little over an 1 hour depending how quickly you kill the bugs.

Maybe I'm an idiot and gave up, but how long do you have to hold out for to win? Overall I had fun, but a clock would be nice, if possible of course.

There implemented a fix. Shouldn't happen anymore.

Hmm crud. Grenadiers have a problem with path-finding when there is a closed gate in their way.
If you lost the mine and the gate on the main wall is still intact that's likely why your having that issue. If you try opening the gate they should come forward. I thought I had found something that fixed that but I guess it didn't take.

Thanks for the tip, forgot snipers can deal with grenadiers, but I did find an issue. Like you said, first wave or so after night, took our the marauders and the fleet officer, left the others there to buy some time. They were overrun relatively quickly, however from then on, the next 3 waves at least, the grenadiers had an ai issue where they wouldn't go near the walls.

They would stay around the middle base, each time I had to send some snipers out to kill them & get the waves moving. After the 3rd time or so, I called it quits. They did the exact same thing each time, stayed on both sides of the middle base & sat there, you could see the red triangles on the map but no movement, even when I tried to provoke them, sometimes they just went right back.

I had no troops at the middle base, it had already been captured, and all my people were behind the wall, they still prioritized the middle, grenadiers specifically though I would find 1 or 2 warriors, and a tanker for one wave.

The mine was never meant to be held for very long. You should be able to hold it until night falls and by then you can hold for maybe 1 more wave and then you should be getting out asap. This should give you between 60-70 supply to work with which should be more than enough to hold the line. I like using the barrage ability from the heroes (mechs) and the artillery barrage from the fleet liaison to deal with the grenadiers as they tend to be clustered in groups. Snipers are also effective at taking them out. Another effective strategy I found is to fall back from the wall and setup a line of defence on the ground behind it. When I fist release the map the supply amount was higher but it was actually causing the game to lag so had to tone it down a bit.

Might need to give supplies more often. I played & beat this mission maybe a month or two ago, very fun. Had to abandon the middle base near the end when I got overwhelmed. But with the changes and the grenadiers showing up earlier, I was already behind on spawning snipers to deal with the spitters, when they showed up, the middle base was being overwhelmed much earlier.

Also, I don't really have a good solution to deal with the grenadiers. You can spawn rocket troopers to target them, but you'd have to spawn a lot when you're also having to spawn other troopers just to deal with the increasing tide. Maybe the supply amount increases as the game goes on? +2, then +3, etc?

I did have a few other projects on the go including a siege of Minas Tirith but I couldn't get them to work in a way that I found satisfying enough to publish. The problem with Minas Tirith is I cant do tunnels. So what I end up with is a big section in the middle with a 7 tiered base on each side and no way to get from on side to the other. Never really figured out a way to get around that problem.

Next project you do has got to be the battle for Gondor. You have done awesome for this piece now you we got to see what you come up next.

New version published today. This version sees some major changes as I redid the wave spawning entirely using new methods I learned from experimentation. Grenadiers should unlock and spawn as part of normal waves now. This will make the level harder and I tweaked a few things to try and balance it out. The gates at the mine had to be removed because they cause issues to the grenadiers and I feel like it's better this way the mine was always meant to be a vulnerable position that you need to abandon at some point.

Anyways enjoy and let me know if these changes make it too difficult and I need to tone it down.

@rob recruit 3-4 units of sniper, spread them along the wall and set them to target fire spitters. Really helps reduce their impact. Good luck on your next attempt!

Just played a match, didn’t get to the end (got swarmed by spitters lol) but it seems like the problem has been fixed for me.

Did a quick fix shouldn't be anymore bugs getting stuck on the edges of the map. Had to disable the grenadiers mutation so you wont be able to target fire them at the moment. I will see if I can find a better fix tonight. If anyone notices bugs still getting stuck let me know.

I also had it happen with tankers and warriors though

Hmm yes seems to be an issues that came from me fixing the problem that I had the wrong mutation selected to unlock grenadiers. Seems that now that I fixed that grenadiers are spawning as part of the attacks waves but for some reason they don't attack and just sit on the edges of the map. I am trying to find a fix for it but If I cant I might just have to remove the mutation that adds them and just keep manually spawning them.

@RobZ06 Yea it can be multiple waves that get stuck and sometimes it's a bigger horde with a tanker bug so you can't simply send out a couple squads to get rid of the problem. Other than this it's a very cool map.

Wanted to give some input on the bug spawn issues people are having. After a wave wasn't starting, I sent a sacrificial squad to scout out the spawn areas. The main offenders were the Plasma bugs, they were just standing behind the map limit (red line) on every side and not moving up. After sending my squad along the edges of the maps and destroying them, the next wave spawned. Unfortunately, this seemed to persist with every wave! Just wanted to give some insight.

I see some other comments on similar glitches. I also am having problems with the bugs spawning. I send a squad out to look for them and it seems that the entire wave spawned, but never advanced toward the base. They just sit there where they spawn. Hope this helps with solving the problem. Love the mod, keep up the good work!

@legacy strange that never happened from dozens of test games on my end. I will try to review the spawns and paths they take and see if there is anything I can do to fix that.

I would suggest you simply try playing it again it's unlikely to happen a second time.

Love this. I got to a point where the bugs no longer spawn to attack. was able to recapture the mine and sit there +2 supply. found a horde of bugs just chilling bottom left corner. my Mi died so called it there

anytime i like to see things be best as they can be :)

@phantom guard fixed thanks for mentioning it.

hey so i tried to target the grendiers but the bug unlock is set to plasma somthing that does not apear in the mapthis might just be a mistake in the editer as i have mixed up plasma bug and plasma grenders that might be somthing yo want to fix

That was some of the most fun i had playing this game yet i love base defence

@Diremerc Oh, that's a huge bummer with the tankers and plasma bugs. The game in general is fun but definitely has some odd bugs I wish they'd work out haha. And yeah, I kinda assumed the hoppers would cause problems just murdering the civvies in the caves. I say this with never having used the editor, but I wonder if it would be possible to place a trigger on the walls of the caves that if anything enters the zone it teleports them to the right most bug spawn.

Regardless, thank you so much for creating the hard mode!

Whelp I decided to go for it. Worked on it all night long but hard mode is here.
https://psteamcommunity.yuanyoumao.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2980022373

Going to implement a few minor changes to the regular version as well using some of the things I learned while making the hard mode. But those will only come tonight after I've had some sleep.

@Smittywerbenjaegermanjensen

I experimented with hoppers a few times and the issues with them is they tend to always kill the officer and the people in the cave the best way to counter this I found was adding AA turrets to the top of the cliff around the cave and atop the main keep they still cause too many issues I decided not to use them.

As for the plasma/tanker for some reason the game will not spawn them as part of the regular waves so my only option at the moment is to manually put them on the map and tell them to attack when a certain number of waves has passed. I might try to figure out a better way of spawning them.

I'm fairly happy with the map as it is now balance wise but maybe I will publish a separate hard mode map.

Woof, sorry for the novel

-Along with the item directly above, could potentially also either move all tech buildings to the deeping wall, making it so you can *only* spawn riflemen if you lose it and/or completely remove the ability to call in reinforcements from the keep, giving you an incentive to make a radio operator(or more importantly an incentive to *not* take the orbital bombardment ability on the fleet liason) and also adding to the helms deep feel of a hopeless last stand once you fall back to the keep.

-if none of the above work, perhaps reduce starting supply and starting units so you don't have the ~5 riflemen on the walls that you can pull into the mines (the 2 in the keep and 3 on the main part of the wall (I found I still needed the 2 riflemen on the left side to hold that part of the wall while everything else held the mines)

-Could move almost all of the supply caches from the keep to the mines and/or deeping wall, and maybe a bit more from the deeping wall to the caves making it so that you're *really* incentivized to protect these areas. Once you lose the deeping wall and fall back to the keep it really should be a "last stand" scenario. Currently you have so much supply that again, after you lose the mines if you pull everything back to the keep there's zero chance of losing.

Suggestions on if you want to make it harder:

-add hoppers. they seem like the don't do much but they're actually really important in bug waves, as they take the focus of the MI off the ground bugs and waste time turning around to shoot, giving the warriors time to close the distance. This might cause issues with them potentially flying directly into the caves though. Could probably be worked around by just adding them to middle 3 waves and the right 3 waves

-once plasma/tanker bugs spawn, IMO they should be in every wave, since if you can deal with the tanker/plasma bug waves its easy to deal with the waves that dont have them.

-reduce amount of supply gained from holding the mine from 2 -> 1