So far, it results in a commander with a "mimic" behavior, but with no behavior to mimic itself, it does nothing, and mimics in its fleet do nothing.

But, I'm wondering if there's a nuance to it as my test cases involved zero-skill behaviors and then tossing the commander to the wolves to see what happens. Or I may have another mod interfering, though I don't have many.

I've a mind to dip my toes back in myself just to make a mini mod that makes mimic a wee bit smarter.

@Korvyr

Now I am slightly interested again...

Does the successor commanders hold with "Wait"?

One guess is that, whenever a ship is promoted to commander, it instantly calls "lib.request.orders", which essentially cancels the running Mimic command.

Whatever happens, this mod is gonna stay retired. If anything, I might make a new mod to slightly bugfix Mimic.

I recognize EgoSoft claims to have modified mimic to recreate the commander's behavior, but considering my commander had a zero-skill requirement behavior and the commander's death resulted in a fleet with no direction and a commander with no behavior on multiple tests, I can safely say their code does not work. Or, at least, is very unreliable.

Basically, back when Mimic wasn't even a thing, this mod decided to be lenient and let mimic successors use a previously-available, but now-internal-only "AutoTrade"/"AutoMine" script, so that they may "retain" the order but don't guarantee pre-succession range numbers; this is still limited by the skill level of the successor running the default order.

EgoSoft then made several subsequent "clarification" updates which are basically these:
- AutoTrade/AutoMine is not for every ship; skill level required
- Mimic is not for every ship; skill check applies
- EgoSoft agrees Mimic should try to recreate late commander's default orders; skill check applies

For further inquiries you should find EgoSoft or the general modding community.

Re-reading the 8.0 vanilla code for Mimic, I can see that the vanilla game now attempts to recreate the default order of the late commander when a subordinate is promoted to "root" (aka no commander). I remember this change was made in 7.0 and is the main reason why I retired this mod: vanilla is now fully doing what this mod is trying to do.

I do notice that vanilla will check skill levels when trying to recreate orders, which is different from this mod. This may explain why sometimes the mimic "does not work": maybe the skill check failed.

I can confirm that vanilla mimic does NOT recreate the commander's default behavior if the commander dies, which was the main draw of this mod.

anyone know if this still works?

Hey @Vectorial, just wanted to say thank you for providing us this amazing mod through the years, you did a absolutely amazing job thank you!

I'm certain I'm beating a dead horse, but is this mod still usable even without an update. Found this mod to be far superior to ego's current mimic (7.10) and would much rather use this mod instead.

Thanks for creating this mod to begin with, makes trading/mining much easier.

Cheers!

emmmm.....hard for me.I do not have the ability to view authoring source files

Yes you can! But you will need to look at the xml source files to update the patches...

Can I continue to use this mod for a trade leader to lead several novice captains in trade or mining? Maybe I can ask you to separate this feature and make it a new mod, but of course it's up to you, I'm just asking without malice.

It's a shame to see this go, I've considered this mod to be an essential part of my playthroughs.

Thank you for all your hard work, Vectorial!

@ParkerSelfridge

1. I want to slowly step away from modding; and
2, With how active EgoSoft is improving Mimic, I have decided this is now their problem rather than my problem, so there really is no reason why I should continue maintaining this

If the reason for discontinuing the mod had been "I'm not in the mood anymore", then it would be understandable, but the reason "It's no longer necessary" is simply a lie. The main function of the mod is that subordinates of civilian ships imitate the commander. This still doesn't fully work in 7.00. In the end it doesn't matter anyway because this mod requires the mod from Sir Nuke and it doesn't work for me anyway.

Vanilla mimic checks the subordinates' skill levels. Please see https://github.com/Vectorial1024/v1024_civilian_fleets/blob/master/CLOSING.md for how to rethink logistics now that CivFleet is not available.

I appreciate all your work on this. But 7.0 mimic is not working as well as this mod. I have a fleet of trade ships sitting and doing absolute nothing for hours except for the fleet leader.

Thanks for all your work on this Mod over the years, really helped out! I do hope you are able to mod something else in the X4 game. Or whatever game you go to next, good luck with the mods! Thanks for everything, take care out there!

More historical context:

In the past, there was no option to manually rename fleets (we call those "wings" back then), and fleet autorename was essential.

Later, manual fleet renaming was added, and people began requesting to disable the fleet autorename.

The main arguments are the following:

- 7.0 now has equal mimic functionality
- station gameplay should be more important than fleet gameplay
- fleet autorename was just a hack and some want it disabled

I considered making a mod just for fleet autorename, but I thought it would be too limited and too much work.

Bit confused about this mod being obsolete message. It still does add functionality to the game that the game does not have. Are you saying you will stop supporting it? Maybe someone else can take over then? It is by far from obsolete IMO

@Katra Applesauce

This was checked and answered a few times since X4 5.0: Repeat Orders is unreadable, and no one can really see/modify the order queue of a ship.

curious if its possible to get mimic repeat orders for trading working? thats something that still doesnt work with 7.0

@AzoorFox Read the mod description/comments

@Vectorial1024 WDYM "NO"???

@AzoorFox

No.

UPDATE WHEN???????

A Salute to you Vectorial! This mod made my life a hell of alot easier in days past!

Thank you for all your hard work, this mod was an integral part of all my games. You helped make my game more fun.

Thank you @Vectorial1024. Your mod was ascended as game core feature))

OK, I have decided: this mod is obsolete for X4 7.0+, and no updates/replacements will be made. More info on what to do next please read https://github.com/Vectorial1024/v1024_civilian_fleets/blob/master/CLOSING.md

This is a very historical moment, as I oversaw and witnessed an OG mod (originally by someone else!) from the almost ancient 1.0 era to be gradually adapted and eventually re-implemented into the base game. So much has happened and changed over these many years, and I really like to believe, the huge number of users here (and on Nexus too!) really motivated EgoSoft to create the very intuitive Mimic default behavior to benefit even more people.

As of writing there are about 13K subscribers here, and about 7.5K unique DLs on Nexus. Thank you all for your continued support!

This is a bit of a historical moment, because when you trace back in time, Civilian Fleets is actually a bugfix of the OG Mining Trading Fleet mod back in the X4 1.0 era (2018)

Even if you decide not to continue, I've been enjoying your mod for 4 years. It has greatly improved my X4 experience and I thank you. Thanks for making this.

I checked my own changenotes, and it turns out I actually knew about potential mimic improvements... apparently I forgot about them.

But still, I have to think of what to do with this mod.

@SinisterSlay

Actually, I haven't decided what to do with this mod under X4 7.0 because basically, EgoSoft did a friendly rug-pull to this mod by improving the vanilla mimic so much, I don't even know how to convince yall to keep using this mod anymore.

Vanilla mimic now remembers the last mimicked command and will "restore" it if a subordinate is promoted to replace the destroyed commander.

Even if I decide to sunset this mod, I still need to think of replacements, and everything is not finalized yet. This is a very unexpected move by EgoSoft, but don't get me wrong, the move is good.

This is one of my favorite mods. I hope you can update to remove the sirnukes requirement. That mod hasn't been updated for many years now and its been in various states of broken for a pretty long time.

@Crusaderkvw

Subordinates try to have ranges close to the commander, but if their own skill level is not high enough, then their range is limited by the game

DeadTater tends to have a global central command when it comes to deciding what to do, so it is likely traders using DeadTater will all do the same thing; recommend using something else, eg vanilla autotrade would work because it does not have any global central command

Got a few question on things i've noticed in my time playing using civilian fleets, also using DeadTater trader and supply mules and warehouses mod. playing on the most recent stable version of the game so no 7.0 beta updates.
1. Subordinates of the civilian fleet commander seem to have low jump gate ranges set, do they use these own values or do they get the same values as the commander?
2. I noticed that many traders and miners ended up doing the same task, like go and buy the same goods as the commander is buying (so they do follow the "behaviour" but seem to have limited ware selection). Is this something that just updates very slowly or is something strange going on?

RandomTrade and RandomMine (and also RandomSupply) have their own fleet updating rules, so no. I will not provide support for those mods.

Can You add suport for randomtrade and randommine?

Mods likely won't work in betas; this should be something you understand before you join any beta programs.

There are no replacements to SirNukes API for extension options. Other right-click-related stuff perhaps I can just workaround it, but extension options has no replacements. Homegrowing it is too hard.

I don't worry too much about SirNukes API not being updated for a long time; perhaps like me, the guy just return briefly when the base game is updated, then push a compatibility update, then goes back to sleep.

The 4/4 update works great, thanks.

Something to consider for 7.0... apparently SirNukes API doesn't work in 7.0, and it hasn't been updated in a long time. Might want to think about what changes you'd need to make to remove the dependency, at least temporarily.

Thanks!

And the update was finally out some time ago.

Take your time, you do that in your freetime and we appreciate your work!

irl stuff has blocked me from making any progress, and progress is stalling hard. A bugfix was scheduled for 2023 Q4 but still hasnt come out yet. I can only say "ok I have seen your post but will look at it later".

I came across such a problem in your mod. When you rename the fleet to your name. After the first transaction, the fleet automatically changes its name to Civilian 1 =ReadText221024-1102= and so on every time.
No matter how much you would change its name.
2) If the ship is already in the fleet, you cannot change the size of its available sectors, I use the TaterTrade mod. The ship needs to be removed from the fleet, and its range of passage across sectors must be manually increased.

If someone else has the problem, this mod is causing crashes for me in Version 6.20.

https://github.com/Vectorial1024/v1024_civilian_fleets/issues/70

For future reference, perhaps.

I should double check whether "assign trader to carrier for resupply" is a valid vanilla behavior.

The "trade becomes mimic" is here for legacy reasons.

Not sure if this is expected behaviour, but when I attempt to assign a ship to a carrier to trade for host, it automatically gets assigned to mimic, not trader. Is there a better way to do this or is it broken?