引用自 1 share = 1 prayer：

引用自 Blueshy：

Right, but if you for example wanted to increase the range of all the 9mm ammo you would have to go into the ammo theater and manually compute and change the numbers for each and every variant. Instead, you could simply add a command to multiply the current range values by 1.1 for all 9mm and then output a new ammo theater file. It will save you a ton of work and make tweaking groups of numbers much easier.

Ah I see. My script doesn't save the data hierarchy so that will take some thinking.

Btw, I noticed there are duplicate ammo entries in the srnx_common_ammo.theater

Edit: I wrote my script based on the indentation level and some of the tabs are spaces fml

First visualization: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1W1K8PdB2USbGuq5WbonmMma9XPVBK6WO73FoI9XuM80/edit?usp=sharing

Idk what to comment on this, some rows are not in the game and have to be removed manually.

That is pretty amazing!

Magdump index tells a big story!

I'd be very interested in a few things:

-Adding armor value reductions for bullet damage index which we do on our original sheet.
-Pentration power at the various ranges. To get meters, divide range by 52.46. To get wall penetration length, also divide by 52.46.

Also this company I work next to whom I know very well do web development and have a cool hobby-project website that helps visualize data very quickly for free.

Here is an example:

Magdump Index[statpedia.com]


Bullet Damage Index[statpedia.com]

@Night What I mean by waiting and jumping on the bandwagon is that more recently in the past 4-5 months, you seem to hop on other complaints to add your 2 cents without just starting a new thread and really hashing out alternative suggestions/ideas.

I'm sorry to hear you say that. In regards to our community admins. I don't demand anything from anyone. They volunteer their time and I'm very fortunate that all our admins so far have been great and more than I could ask for. I've had a few really bad admins with my past 2 communities which burned me out/became all negative and those communities died.

Being an admin is tougher than people think. It takes a lot of energy to regulate people/disputes b/c we're all uniquely complex. Most of us come to Sernix to relax, avoid drama and have fun. When you're an admin, you want to do the right thing for all parties and so even after a long day of real work, you may have to deal w/ drama on here/in-game instead of getting your headshotting bot therapy.

引用自 thorusacc：

MFW this thread exploded from relatively civil criticism into a clusterfuck of "muh argument"

Also Daimyo has been spectatin a lot lately, so aside from the fact that the other Admins have social lifes too, he is really trying to fix the situation, why all the hate? He fucked up, he realized it, hes fixing it, problem solved.

No need to go full ragemode.

Yeah I'm going to close it down soon but want to let any last replies in and if anyone wants to carry on after that we can do it via directly.

I have been spectating often to get the jist of whats going on and making sure things are working properly. I definitely fucked up in the sense of not really detecting the frustration of the juggs in their OP state. The main thing I get upset about in these types of threads is when I hear things like: "things used to be good" and or that Sernix is trash now because of X temporary feature that I haven't tweaked and refined because I'm working on many other portions. Instead of those comments, I implore people to offer real alternatives outlining how their idea will do better while also measuring work vs benefit.

引用自 ProRussian：

Well... this makes me sentimental about my family get togethers : 0. So i imagine, actually i cant imagine, how hard it is to make changes to a game and everyone is pleased. From what i read the programming crew is working on things and unfortunately they have full time jobs which are not Sernix. So it is going to take awhile for changes to come in and some changes to go. We have an active (sometimes to active lol) community that provides input and a crew that is listening. If they were not listening then this thread would be as dead as a "Steam Help Thread" Need to reign in the testosterone and if you have a complaint you should provide the reason and also make a suggestion for the fix. If you are making the decision and say NO you need to provide a good techincal basis for your decision. Email and texting are two great way to miscommunicate. I have been a manager for 25 years and have become Yoda-like (both looking and in wisdom) in realizing i have two ears for listening and one mouth for talking. Kinda darwin like huh. So reign it in my young bucs and put all that focus on moving forward. WE will get there lets hug it out bitches!

Hey ProRussian! You host a coop server too called ProRussian right? I have your server on my favorites. I mentioned your server here recently in a post on server rankings and noticed you guys are at an impressive #17 on battlemetrics.

Thanks for the input and wisdom. I agree on your last sentiment wholeheartedly. Also I know we will get through this because everyone in this thread I recognize and know are good people. This is what a good community does, it discusses issues and spends time to resolve them.

引用自 Blueshy：

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5DmYLrxR0Y8

Ideally this.. Unfortunately I have to respond to the comments since its now in the air. I will do so with a level-head and I implore everyone else to keep it that way else this will get locked and shut down fast.

引用自 NightCrawler：

引用自 Panda：

@nightcrawler, Just because your a "donor or veteran doesn't mean you can talk shit, be annoying as fuck and just be a bitch and not get called out for.

I really do not talk shit, if you want me to talk shit, I would get banned in one minute. But I think YOU need to look at yourself in the mirror and see who is annoying as fuck. And those are your words, definately not mine, because I would not resort to cussing or bad language. And I don't mind being called out, because I am a Man, I just would hope that you were concerning this matter. This is a Complaint Thread isn't it? I was just using my 1st Ammendment right to Free Speech. But I guess that does not apply here.

And I am not attacking anyone here, if anyone has been attacked it has been me for just speaking my mind. Damn Nan0b0t was right after all!

Night, this is where I think we started to get off track:

"Spoken by a person that is NOT going to accept criticism that is critical to his/her servers."

If I wasn't willing to accept criticism, wouldn't it be easier to just not create the Sernix group in the first place? Did you know that the first sections of this group was Discussion and Suggestions? Example of this in February of 2015 and Another. The group was founded in January 29, 2015.

Also, when have you ever been threatened or felt censored to execute free speech? If we were the Third Reich, shouldn't I attack you back and ban you on the merit of falsely characterizing me as being close-minded and insensitive to peoples criticism? No.. because I'm a human and I can sense frustration in your comment and other peoples comments, just as you can understand the anxiety I get from the bandwagon of complaints when one of these threads are created. They are valid complaints and as I admitted earlier in this thread that I was a bit disconnected to how horrible the juggernauts were in their current state and so I fixed it.

Some other complaints seem like they are regurgitated from prior complaints, including DaGolems about armor/ammo. He brings no valid argument back to what I have stated at least twice now. All I ask DaGolem is you acknowledge it and then counter it.. Its not a right vs wrong thing, its a debate of ideas where better ideas can come about and then we can move forward to implementation.

引用自 sheppy：

Wow what s shit show this has become. People attacking people for comments?
Unreal. Sad really sad if you ask me. But then again no one asked ME!

If you're referring to the group as becoming the shit-show, that doesn't seem to hold water and I'd like to hear your critical opinion on that if that is what you do mean. Truly so I could get some insight on what is wrong in your eyes.

If you're referring to the thread as becoming a shit-show than thats more understandable since these threads do tend to fall off at some point as it is now.

More specifically if you're referring to Panda "attacking people for comments". Here is my understanding of why Panda responded like that until he can clarify. Some of you remember the last time complaints got really loud on Sernix(Nan0/Frosty/Thunder) and there was a lot of really direct negative back and forth that ended up not even having to do with Sernix.

During this, apparently Night was spreading some misinformation at the time even after Panda corrected him. Also others were apparently reporting that Night was talking shit in-game often and it was getting annoying.

I sense that Night has been bottling up his frustration and immediately jumped on this thread when he saw it. I assume this because he hasn't played since May 20th (I last checked yesterday). Once again, Panda has the right to speak for himself and can clarify his side so we can all clear up the bad blood and move forward.

Night my question to you would be, why do you wait so long and then jump on the bandwagon instead of just laying out your complaints and maybe alternative ideas to go with it?

引用自 HELLCAT：

引用自 Panda：

Why do you even come around?

Who the hell pissed in your wheaties Panda? That was seriously uncalled for. As an Admin, you should be ashamed. And the other Admins here that saw that...shame on you for brushing over that kind of abuse and not even addressing it! WTH have we as a community become? Hell I am ashamed to even be here.

As stated above responding to Sheppy, you out of all people Hellcat know the kind of shit that goes on in-game and you need to remember that Panda and Archana give enough of a shit to report it to me and sort it out. This is not black and white just like the crap you had to deal with wasn't either. Once again, lets let Panda respond before jumping to conclusions and painting him poorly.


------------------------


Also in general, everyone has to remember that we too get frustrated when we see the same complaints or suggestions coming up with no real compromise or alternative ideas that meet in the middle(that havent been turned down before for X reasons). Choppah and Nasty I believe in this thread did the best to show alternatives suggestions and ideas which I executed most of them in regards to juggs but everyone here that mentioned juggernauts really exemplified to me that it needed to be adjusted fast.

引用自 1 regex = 1 a-z+：

引用自 Blueshy：

Nicely done. For RPM, all those weapons with NA use "fire_cycle" (pretty sure it's inverse of number of shots per second) for their RPM instead of "rounds_per_minute".That's why your script couldn't find a value. For reload speeds, I'm guessing it comes from the actual animation file itself? The other catigories that have NA appear to be special use cases of variables. It looks like you have the majority of the useful data in there already. Might have to fill some stuff in manually though. Very interested to see what you do with that data!

My idea as fleshed out in the other thread was to get a geometric mean of all the metrics and hopefully get some useful visualizations. The problem is, you can't multiply by zero or NA. Maybe I'll work on splitting those recoil values for now.

The data is presented here to anyone who wants to do fun stuff with excel!

Wow this is great.. I wish I invested time in the beginning to create a script that would cull all the data for easier exports after changes. I think one for Ammo would be YUGE in regards to revamping it or visualizing it.

I wonder how hard it would be to reverse import the data once changed.

Hmm any death message, anything? How many times tested?

引用自 prospirit：

Let's consider an additional way to convey the frustration.

Daimyo said there will never be a veterans-only server and made a sticky post. Well, Daimyo is calibrating the win rate to be 20%, which is currently achievable given the difficulty by only with an entire server population of veterans. The logic is conflicting here.

I think with the /help menu its a start.. On one hand, I totally understand the reservation to leave a server if people are newbing it up as I've been there and I've also probably on many occasions have been the newb. I've been around and a part of communities that have exclusivity. Some of them definitely can make it work like Dslyecxi's Shack Tactical community. Generally though (and this is only my view), exclusivity in groups sort of grows egotism with individuals in the group. Recently while I'm on the servers, most of the time there is a sense of comradely and people are very welcoming so its all subjective.

On the discussion of a 20% win rate, I dont mean to achieve this in a way of creating such a difficult / frustrating experience that people hate the server. Thinking about it more today and reflecting, I understand I totally did this with the first iterations of the juggernauts and only today have I recently made amends to really correct it (and further adjustments/improvements will be made).

Really 20% is an arbitrary number and varies per map. Ideally I want people to have fun losing.. Meaning Sernix is a challenge that rewards teamplay, good execution, strategy and tactics. Some of my most memorable moments are ones in which we ALMOST won. The times when we are desperately fighting a counter attack or barely capping a point. Those clutch moments and not-so-clutch moments. Its the fun/enjoyment along the way of the map and not just the end (sometimes the end is bland and boring). As I outlined just yesterday about what a future Sernix insurgency coop game may look like.. That is where I'm essentially getting at.

引用自 NightCrawler：

引用自 Daimyo：

In regards to server popularity (aside from in-game morale and frustrations), I monitor the top 3 coop servers after this has gotten brought up before. 90% of the time, they have equal to less numbers than us and we out rank them per month. Sometimes population is based on time of month and average players per month[steamcharts.com] all together.

Spoken by a person that is NOT going to accept criticism that is critical to his/her servers.

Night.. I'm simply stating facts over general feelings with respect to current frustrations/concerns and without invalidating them and or the statement that the server pop is now declining. All I was saying is that the data at hand does not tell the exact same story so I get frustrated when its stated as so some catastrophe is occurring. Can the population get worst and decline? Yes, obviously, sometimes I'm a bit disconnected, have a hard time validating feedback, or simply get burned out for periods of time as do some of you.

I want everyone to know that I truly care about the state of things and that the server/community population/popularity is a big driving force. Nothing is more demoralizing in a project that relies on player feedback than lack of participation.

Given that there is more and more credible constructive/objective feedback, I do feel that this is one of my more disconnected moments and that I need to adjust things immediately but not to some crazy extreme like I did with armors a couple months back. I'm going to analyze the feedback again as a whole and try and make further immediate adjustments for the current build of Sernix and then go from there. Ive already made a good amount last night in regards to lives, respawn delay, and ally/enemy reinforcements (check announcements)

引用自 Choppah：

I can see Daimyo is trying to change things up and increase the difficulty so regulars actually have to try. Before the changes to armor occurred, it was far too easy to win. I often hampered myself with guns I didn't like or chose unusual loadouts just to feel like I was being challenged and I was still solo capping.

This.. but many of you're right. Its current state needs adjustments given the recent added difficulty.

引用自 Choppah：

As more content is added it becomes increasingly difficult to balance or flesh out all these additions. In my experience this normally happens with mods overtime and usually these features would be cut from the final version of commercial games. Obviously since there is no ship date or company overhead, what gets added into mods usually stays even if it doesn't really fit. Unless it just causes unintended problems that aren't solvable in another way because of engine limitations, netcode sync issues, time, etc.

I agree with you and thats a really good point. I especially agree when it comes to certain maps. Some maps havent aged well on Sernix and also have notoriously broken parts to it such as old nav-mesh, poor spawn/point placement etc.. Some I've recently tried to improve server-side navmesh where as others I think I may eventually just pull the trigger on.

In regards to theater, sourcemod etc. I do think there are places to trim but I wouldn't know where to start yet. I think the ammo system is great where its at in terms of structure but definitely can use a nice overall rehaul in terms of overlooking all values and making global adjustments.

Armor I feel like its good where its at but as stated before.. I'd like to add in different enemy models/skins to exemplify that better so players could make better decisions on where to shoot an enemy (no armor >> light armor >> heavy armor etc.). Also being able to distinguish them easier will help.

I'm likely going to leave the ammo rehaul up to Axin and or Blueshy if they are wiling. The system right now is pretty good.. just need to adjust any big discrepancies that we all could agree on and or that make more sense.

Blueshy is almost done with rehauling carrier/rig weights along with some heavier weapons so we can see where that leads us and then go from there with ammo, armor, etc.

引用自 Choppah：

I don't know of a design document for Sernix but given the struggle to make a fun, challenging, deep game with important loadout choices that matter, it may be time to put something together. I know the problem with inconsistent weights is already being worked on but it goes deeper than that.

There are pinned discussions outlining some of the design mechanics. The problem with creating these docs is they get outdated and are another thing to maintain. I agree though that if we do any types of rehaul moving forward, that would be a good time to make a general design doc outlining the decisions/motivations.

I do need to eventually outline, organize, and trim from our respawn script more for just me because Its getting so massive that I am starting to get lost in some of its functionality...

引用自 DaGolem：

引用自 Nasty：

here are some suggestions of things that need to happen with the juggernauts if you like the idea of specialized units that don't make everyone hate playing on sernix.

引用自 Nasty：

also, just becuase you like it, doesn't mean it works. you gotta take our feedback seriously because thats how communities die, hubris.

It is not only the Juggernauts there are only pop up because there u see it how unfair the gameplay is clearly.
The entire acarde shit shooting sucks!

Most people play insurgency because of the more realism shooting a.k.a the faster Kill & Die thing. Thats why they buy this game!

If they want acarde shit shooting then they buy Battlefield or some other crap tripple a mainstream shooter.
I say it over and over again and explain how and why acarde shooting is crap & unfair but nothing happens. Player numbers drop down...nothing happens....people try to explain and help...nothing happens....the new way is the way and no other way is possible the consequences is people are tired to help, to explain and to wait and in the end they quit.

@Nasty Not everyone hates the concept of juggernauts else it wouldn't of been brought in as an idea from the community (not me), but I'm realizing more of how unbalanced they are currently, especially since the aimtracking improvements which now they are no longer just taking it.. but giving it.

In regards to my own hubris, trust me, I'm overly analytical and constantly put myself in check while trying to not be overly critical. I may communicate things poorly at times or be guilty of assuming or perceiving things a certain way. Overall I think I'm pretty reasonable but could always use improvement.

@DaGolem
I think you're using the arcade shooter term too loosely but I understand your argument to an extent if you include juggernauts with it. I think Sernix does a pretty good job in getting as much realism vs gameplay in thats reasonable with the scale of the project, time costs, ambition, maintenance.

Before juggs and recent aimtracking improvements, you were already saying that armor/guns/ammo was unfair/unbalanced yet when I called you out on that, you never directly address the fact that we use the same armor/guns/ammo as the bots. Where is your argument there? How can it be unfair if we are equal. At the very least I said the only unfair advantage is latency but that is variable and minimal below 150 ms. So if you have suggestions there, I'm all ears.

To say I'm not doing anything is also very disheartening to hear. Late April I had a big update and in May I had ~17 updates that I actually posted and implemented the first iteration of the AI director. I've already disclosed that I spend a depressing amount of my time on this project that even if there was 0 server costs, I'd be making $0.10 an hour off contributions so clearly I'm not doing it for the money nor am I doing it as a slave. I enjoy most aspects of it but there is also drudgery type work involved.

I simply hear your argument about normal bot armor/ammo/guns (not jugs) and do not agree because you havent presented a justifiable enough argument to why its unfair(not to say it can't be improved). Given the current ammo was designed close to these armor values, it makes sense to keep them around there til we design the entire system differently which is at least a month of work. In terms of realism of armor/ammo/guns, I'd like to think Sernix is somewhere in the 50-80% range. For example: AR500 armor can stop every round up to even 762. yet on Sernix, we allow pistol ammo to do damage when we could simply negate all ammo so the player would have to shoot only for head and limbs..

If you really want to dive into realism, than we have to account for what the plate armor actually covers on the torso.. Unfortunately vanilla NWI hitboxes have stomach and chest blocks as hitboxes. The only way to really simulate plate armor on the torso is if we redo the hitboxes.

Example Here[www.dropbox.com] The guy on right is our current hitboxes and the chest represents green with yellow representing stomach. We'd have to outline the portion of the torso that would not be covered by plate armor and then either categorize it as extensions of the hitgroup_arm and or hitgroup_generic which than we'd have to get sourcemod involved because for some reason in my testing, hitgroup_generic cant be changed via armor and must be done through sourcemod which could stress the server possibly.

You have to remember that when I rehaul/redesign systems. I have to do it with the knowledge and time I have at that current instance. Everything on Sernix currently took YEARS to accomplish with tons of community help and learning tons of shit. I've become a jack of all trades with a motivation to curate great ideas. Its far easier to point out flaws in any complex system that took years to develop. I often have to work with the resources I got. As you can see with just the juggs, I have to make tons of mistakes and revisions to get it semi-right and thats not just including the armor values but lots of back-end work. I also have to pick and choose the best times to restart the servers in order to get a theater/content update up. Its not like Im purposely holding out and keeping broken things on the server.. I just dont want to inconvenience others but more importantly myself.

I hope you can understand that I'm doing the best I can and if you want to physically help or discuss how we can improve things, we can setup a time to chat about it when I'm free next.

@All other feedback
I've read it and will re-read again and make some adjustments hopefully today if I have time at work. I've already spent a an hour or so just replying to this thread.

cbble is just a tight map in general. The only other point would be the fountain area.. Its one of the toughest maps so you're going to need excellent coordination, barricading, etc.. Even then its very difficult.

I think its current point is the best. However, I could possibly look into pushing back its spawns more in future.

Recent update addressed some of the concerns in this thread along with this post on future plans.

In regards to jugs, there's still some work needed. I like the idea of specialized unit(s) and the only reason I implemented them in the first place was a suggestion from the community. I like where they are at currently in this state of the build.

In regards to server popularity (aside from in-game morale and frustrations), I monitor the top 3 coop servers after this has gotten brought up before. 90% of the time, they have equal to less numbers than us and we out rank them per month. Sometimes population is based on time of month and average players per month[steamcharts.com] all together.

PS: I'm still tweaking other elements to ease frustration.

Alright lets cut to the chase as I've been meaning to address the state of things since there are some concerns with the state of Sernix that need reassurance.

First know that I got a list to fulfill always: View current here[docs.google.com]

That list is a bit outdated and not all Todos are there, but you get the jist.

I've mentioned before that implementing big changes will take time and the challenge is:

• Proving a concept works via testing
  
• Implementation order
  
• Performance optimization
  
• Refinement and balance based on feedback / other features

With that said, community feedback helps with that process and everything is subject to change always.

When new concepts are brought in, it sometimes introduces a whole stream of balance issues and new challenges in general. You guys are my eyes and ears so please be open to changes while objectively/constructively discussing them.



The focus is on Checkpoint game mode because its our #1 played mode and mostly what I focus on developing.

So my goal these past few months and future 6+ months is to get checkpoint to a unique playable state. This is still a conceptual idea and not final, but the process regardless brings tons of new possibilities into Sernix.

So imagine you're playing checkpoint on a semi-sandbox to full sandbox type map. Your main objective is still to capture/destroy point A, B, C, D... etc.. Currently (without factoring in AI director implementation), there is a finite amount of enemies per point, a reinforcement timer, and a chance for counter attack. Individual enemies will reinforce quickly unless they are a jug/bomber in which those spawns are delayed.

So our current system is fairly structured with variability based on players actions/inactions/environment among other small factors.



Scenario 1:
You're assaulting territory A. You notice that there isn't much resistance and or that the resistance is just weak so you start pushing. In order to get vague intel, your team builds a jammer.. but it only gives you a little bit of intel and nothing definitive.. Maybe building more will give you more intel.. The intel you received informs you that enemy jammers are in the area and countering your intel. So either find and destroy or just push and capture the point because there isn't much resistance anyways.

So your team pushes up and starts capturing A... Oddly its taking a lot of time to capture..

AMBUSH!!! 5 bombers spotted nearby and begin assaulting the point, a group of 3 juggernauts and several infantry start appearing in the thick of the village. You hunker down and defend against a intense firefight and continue to capture the point.. You succeed.. only to realize that the enemy was planning an ambush and it happens to be their strongest ambush, an 8 minute counter-attack is on its way with all kinds of trouble(finale counter attakcs no longer are just for the last point). If only you had more intel and found/disabled those jammers before falling for this obvious ambush...


Scenario 2:
You're assaulting territory A.. There is a strong initial resistance.. In order to get enemy forces strengths, you can try to establish a jammer to get vague intel depending on how many jammers and enemy jammers may be in the area.. If there are enemy jammers in the area.. you can try destroying it and getting accurate intel of enemy forces, ambush plans, enemy types in the area, mortar capabilities, etc.

This will help you setup needed tools to combat all these factors. Team leaders can setup safe reinforce points for the team to reinforce on thats closer to the point etc.. Medics can setup medical staging areas that players can run back to and fully heal. Players can also drag and or carry wounded teammates to these medical staging points and revive them without a medic within seconds. Engineers can reinforce with barricades, create access over a wall or to a high vantage point. Construct and deconstruct (with refund) and continually utilize their tools without limit aside from finite resources like ammo.


Scenario 3:
You're assaulting territory A.. You notice the forces are weak, you chance it, take the risk and rush the point. You capture it.. no ambushes, no counter, no nothing.. Territory B seems the same.. do you chance it again?


You get the idea... From these 3 scenarios, you see where I'm trying to take Sernix Insurgency. Getting to that point will take tons of work, headaches, and partial implementations that may confuse people as they are now.

The thing I want to bring to Sernix is a unique enough experience that every play through is exciting, unpredictable, and a different type of challenge and not so uniform. This brings back life into new and old maps with increase replayability. We can get rid of maps that don't work well and or are too hard to maintain/not fun. We can get rid of conquer and hunt if there is no potential to maintain them.

Recently I proved a interesting prospect: Reversing the points of a checkpoint map just by its text file. So what was once A, B, C is now C, B, A with little to no effort. We can even go as far as changing it to B, A, C etc.. This is something I need to explore the pros/cons/challenges of it more since there are some potential issues.

This is not a promise that things will get substantially better or this grand vision will work. I may run into a roadblock or two and may only partially get there. I intend at the very least to refine the AI director and add the improved bot spawning techniques that will possibly utilize the nav-mesh again (hopefully efficiently) while also allowing an AI to make decisions of when to ambush, when to use large/small/medium/finale counter attack. Maybe the enemy has a finite amount of resources per map and he has to use them intelligently etc.. Lots of possibilities.


By reading this, I hope everyone could better understand the direction I'm trying to take Sernix. I am open to always reducing the short-term frustrations but as stated before, be constructive/objective with suggestions.