Itll eventually be addressed when we implement new carrier/rig weights

I'll look into this and try to fix

ending with #covfefe

I believe the sourcemod allows for me to teleport individuals but havent played with it.

Not sure what causes the missing prop bug. Before we narrowed it down to attachments for bot scopes so it might be some bug embedded in the engine and or NWIs current build.

Ic so youre saying maybe have a in-game teleport RTV to test the theory of it its causing the bug?

Ill look into the admin side of it but I doubt thats the bug and more likely a engine bug on spawn.

引用自 DaGolem：

@Blueshy
This Video doesnt mean anything because even with a full protected upper body u have always kinetic energy, psychological disorder [Shock,Fear...] and body parts that are not protected.
To say it clear NO GAME ever has realism in the Hit and Injury system not even ARMA, not Squad, there are far away from REAL!
There is a line from Casual/Acarde to Realism/Simlation. Original Insurgency is more direction Realism and Sernix has moved to more direction Casual.

Gameplay as an excuse for unlogical things like 3 Bullets for 1 Headshot is not realy a good point.

Once again you're making some pretty big false claims so let me address.
ARMA DOES have a very detailed injury/behavior system in just their base game, especially compared to most games. In fact, Arma was one of the biggest reasons I got into modding and I spent over 5 years modding within it so I know the mechanics fairly well (we even have an Arma 3 group though I've been inactive for sometime).

Their injury/behavior system dates back to Operation Flashpoint and that was in 2001 when I started first playing it. Then you have to look at ACE mod for Arma and that brings it to a whole new level of realism.. again that mod has been around for almost 10 years. Im not even scrapping on the thousands of other mods but Arma 3 in general has done some amazing things with bot behavior / damage systems and given how bad some of it was from alpha-beta-release, its gotten so much better and optimized years later.

In regards to Insurgency, some of your initial claims are also false:

Bots currently:
-Get suppressed and it does affect them.
-When players/bots take damage, it slows them down + it reduces their stamina which also slows them down more, affects focus duration and any other mechanic that stamina affects.
-NWI released an adrenaline("arousal") system over a year ago.
-The arousal system affects bots in these ways:

• Bots adrenaline goes up and down based on factors like seeing fellow dead teammates, explosions, suppression, getting shot, seeing an enemy, shooting at an enemy among other things.
  
• Based on high or low adrenaline, aimtracking, angular velocity (head movement), aim penalty, enemy recognition time, attack delay, among some other behaviors all are affected in a positive/negative way.

Example:
So when you shoot at a juggernaut, his angular velocity increases (simulating heighten state), his aim tracking will go down though so itll be harder for him to track you if you shoot and move at the same time (you standing/crouch/prone matters too), but he will recognize you faster, have worst aim and a higher aim penalty. This is just a handful of things that change dynamically.

Inversely if you turn a corner to a calm bot outside of the intense combat zone, his aimtracking will be higher, his recognize time will be slower, higher attack delay, lessened aim penalty, resulting in a accurate kill shot but at a slight delay based on how close you are.

Conclusion:
Yes there is weird fuckery with bots sometimes. Yes every situation varies and yes these systems aren't super sophisticated and may have bugs so everything I described above may not always be the exact case as we've witnessed in-game before so there is a reason to question them.

I just want you to realize that there is more under the hood than what you or I know. Even right now I dont know tons of things that bots do and only know what the NWI's coder who programmed them told me when I probed them. We dont have access to the sourcecode and likely never will so lots of question marks.

Now I will say DaGolem, with your persistence, it is making me re-analyze these systems more and by reviewing/revisiting them, it allows me to think about adjustments moving forward so in that sense, you're contributing big time by challenging them and I implore everyone to continue to do so and not be afraid to, even if my responses have a frustrated tone.

引用自 Nasty：

also im going to call bs on any realism arguments ever used on sernix regarding armor. ar500 armor can defeat 556 and 762, BUT the sheer force of the impact can cause internal hemorrhaging, lacerations, or broken bones that can pierce vital organs. and if that doesnt get you, fragments/ricochets from the impact can still kill you. that coating on the armor can't catch everything. even a single stray bullet could send a fragment straight into the femoral or carotid artery and you're basically fucked. but lets say neither of that happens and youre extremely lucky. the first bullet will still knock you back or over enough at an angle where the next few rounds can enter under the armor. ar500 was designed to protect you but it can only do so much when someone is shooting at you and it isnt perfect. i doubt someone is going to stop shooting just because their armor stopped a few direct impacts. you'd be surprised how fragile humans are. so please stop saying, "irl ar500 can stop all these calibers" because you would more than likely die wearing it when shot multiple times. it just gives the wearer that chance of surviving long enough to fight back or get out safetly. its not an iron man suit

This is the very reason why I dont like getting into realism arguments because #1 its source engine so immediately its a losing argument. All the things you just said could be attempted to be simulated in other ways but whos going to spend time solving that headache and even then major holes will always be present.

So then we have Sernix, quasi realism at best and even then, mostly an illusion of any type of realism thats even close. Gameplay speaking: why should a 9mm round have closer stopping power to an m107 round or 762 round? When you introduce 20+ weapons along with different rounds, mag sizes etc. over the base game, if they all feel the same, do the similar amounts of damage, you're failing at distinguishing a wider arsenal for the players to play with (consequently frequent OP juggernauts also motivate players to use only the highest caliber of weapons).

I primarily make most of my decisions based on gameplay and try only to use realism as a base to start from when trying to measure things such as weight, recoil, draw/reload time/armor etc.

The best example of this is how the theater is currently (again, not perfect, can use a rehaul again): A 9mm ball round does around 8-16+ damage per shot against AR500 armor when it should do none. One 762 standard round does something around 30-43+

So in a way, the fragmenting you mentioned could be considered in that regard. Should we add a bleed system that you annoyingly have to patch yourself every time you're shot and that bots simply just eventually die from? Thats going more towards the frustrating realism route so I dont even think about doing that crap. Sernix is in the middle somewhere.

引用自 DaGolem：

@Mad Monkey

I would have the same problems (up to 3 Headshots/5 BodyShots) on other us server if it is just a simple "latency issue" but i dont, so it is a sernix thing.
Fact is, this is about the acarde bullet hit system on sernix not about the "latency issue".

You keep saying Arcade system but an arcade system = 1-2 shotting people with a 9mm bullet which is what you get on vanilla servers as far as I remember. On the inverse side, you can literally shoot plate armor 5-10+ times without penetrating it with 556 and 762 ammo. On Sernix currently, every bullet, 9mm to 762x51+ does damage per shot no matter what, meaning you can unrealistically shoot someone with AR500 armor in the chest with 9mm HP ammo and eventually kill him in likely 10-15 bullets.

As said before, we arent going for full realism. We are going for quasi realism where caliber choice matters. If you roll out with pistols only and or SMGs, you will be underpowered. Just look at the famous North Hollywood Shooting. Police fired something like 650 rounds of pistol ammo and shotgun pellets at the suspects who were wearing sewn up IIIA armor + make-shift plate armor. Tons of rounds hit these guys but they just kept going and brushed it off. It wasn't until swat arrived with rifles that these guys eventually would go down.

Ill make a video demonstrating bullet damage and hitgroups to put this claim to rest that it takes 3 bullets to kill someone in the head with no helmet. 5-6+ in chest with 556/762 etc..

Also be aware that we're dealing with source engine + insurgencies changes + custom models. For pete sakes they literally fixed a TF2 hitbox bug that was present for 10 years (I believe they finally fixed it last year). So even if we were able to calculate bullets perfectly and I demonstrate it in a video, there is an off chance that in some situations on the live server with 18 players + 20+ bots + chaos/server stress, they will simply not perform correctly all the time period. This is for every server and is multiplayer 101 in game development.

引用自 prospirit：

Daimyo, the weekly blog is something the other admins may be able to help you on. Perhaps you can have an internal meeting with them to figure out some framework, or if there is no capacity then recruit. I'm speaking from real world management experience. Just my 2 cents.

I agree, a weekly blog or bi-weekly blog may help. I will have to decide what kind of format to go with so I am open to allowing everyone to suggest and not just admins. Itll be easier for me to just either post it myself and maybe submit it to them for review to see if anything is confusing.. Maybe others like Blueshy could post sometimes since hes beginning to understand the theater better than most and is working on features for it currently.

@Mad Monkey, I can understand peoples frustration towards my comment and the assumption that I would address it via decreasing the armor along with other means.

Let me explain my actions..

The reason I didn't touch on armor was because the 1-2+ or so month prior we lowered the armor by something like 20%+ reduction. It became a cake walk so I turned up the bots reaction time and decreased aimpenalty and admittedly we had bouts where it was too hard because bots dropped us just as fast as we dropped them.

So we found a middle ground on reaction time and aimpenalty but it then created a new problem.. Counter-attacks became an absolute joke and it was a snoozeville of 7+ minute constant victories. Lone-wolfing became super easy as well when assaulting because bots literally went down in 1-2 shots regardless of the caliber. The reaction of this was that I started to increment upwards with armor until we became virtually within 4-5% of what we originally had it at. So in essence, the armor was reduced 4-5% from what we had it at for well over a year prior to the original discussion you mentioned.


Now when I said "I got the jist of this thread and will make some changes and hopefully get a build out this weekend."

From my point of view as stated above, I already compromised on armor by first allowing the community to test it for weeks at much lower percentages, then moving it back up incrementally with it finally still being reduced 4-5% from our previous build. People have to also remember that when I rehauled the ammo, I designed them around those armor values. I can't simply just rehaul the ammo again, that takes weeks of implementing, testing, tweaking. Constantly modifying individual ammos becomes spaghettios. A well thought out uniform adjustment is best.



In regards to the update as well, you have to remember that the discussion thread you're referring to is rolling out slowly while I constantly work on things and prep them for a weekend release. I sometimes dont have time to add in new last minute adjustments and can only release what I have building up to that weekend. Adjusting the armor may only add an additional 10-20 minutes of time, but I wasn't planning on adjusting it in the first place.

I did add "benefits" to the players in other ways for that update specifically:
-I removed bombers from ~9 maps suggested by community (since been reverted but always a chance to go back).
-Engineer can now carry 2 C4 blocks but there is an added weight to compensate for 2 C4.
-Mk3 grenades can now be carried up to 3.
-Everyone can now carry up to 2 medkits
-Incendiaries burn animation reverted to vanilla.
-Bombers and Juggernauts have an increased respawn time (~20 seconds) during non-counter attacks. This was not functioning correctly and I didnt know for the longest time, even after I added more juggs + more loadouts. I need to start to bold out that these are new features that need to be tested and to report what seem to be bugs.
-All the security reinforcement stuff on Update 2.

Now you also have to remember that on my next update, I began rolling out the first iterations of AI Director. This was going to help balance the difficulty dynamically and skill gap.

Now as stated before, here are more things that will roll out to help address this issue:

• Rehauled ammo/rig carriers which are likely to give you more ammo for possibly less weight in most instances(flexibility will increase).
  
• Better enemy models that will help distinguish what targets are wearing heavier armor but also distinguishing friend from foe.
  
• We have a thread open currently discussing ammo and also the possibly of rehauling it once we lay out all the data. We can at this point have a discussion of how to get it right.
  
• Further Improved bot spawns
  
• Expanding AI Director.

I hope you can appreciate the time I spend on replying to these so people can get a better understanding of how I make decisions and my motives behind them. I think I should write a weekly blog or something (seriously). This will not only allow me to lay my ideas out so I/you guys can spot the clearly bad ones, but it will all be in a place that everyone can read and wont get lost on here. I think I'll just create a thread here or have Archana embed it into our new website shes working on if she can make it work. We'll see.

Thanks Mad for the post!

Closed.

引用自 Whiskey：

and another server, forgot which one but Stryker was on it. Haven't tried the others. The effect was so bad on that server he suggested we try another. Server 3 has the same issue on Dust2, when trying to cap the last point, Foxtrot. Players get close to F then snap back to point E, teleporting.

That was my fault and since has been resolved. I added some code in trying to get players to teleport to last point on finale counter attack and typical ole me thought I read the code correctly.. The reason they dont teleport is because on the last point for finale, the vanilla game respawns everyone automatically and so they arent considered dead. I don't want to teleport everyone thats far from the point because some people might be setting up sniper positions away from the point. So I have to find a workaround that detects players that just spawned and teleports them back.. Not a big priority so may figure it out another time.

引用自 ϟϟgt. λfяo：

SERNIX is a TEAMWORK-ORIENTED server, things must be hard so players must be forced to work together and not be some fucking solo warrior who run and guns all over the place.

To you casuals out there complaining about how hard it is, please GTFO.

I agree with what you're saying but in all fairness nothing is black and white. There is a level of real frustration and its hard to gauge it between players because there are a vast amount of different play-styles. If a player plays for points and is notorious for lone-wolfing, or getting mass kill streaks and that is his confirmation for doing well, than we have a potential issue there so there might be some bias when it comes to giving suggestions that promote teamwork which is integral to Sernix but also shouldnt be forced or done with lots of frustration. It should be vicariously rewarded when done well in the toughest of situations.

My only suggestion with this type of post is to take the tone down. You will come off as the extreme polar opposite of the posts that are voicing their same frustrations but in favor of less teamwork and or just complaining broadly about difficulty without giving alternatives. It just promotes knee-jerk reactions which creates drama and we are going to shut the ones that get out of hand just out of sheer exhaustion.

引用自 Archana Canada mode：

That's why it's important to give precise criticism instead of in-game complaints and general complaints of "too hard, don't like it" or "this gun used to be better before because it made gameplay easier for me" or "Daimyo doesn't listen/doesn't care/no one cares I'm gonna leave".

Thanks Archana. Precise criticism is necessary but people criticizing have to acknowledge the baseline understanding of why the feature was put there in the first place and why it needs to be changed and or some other feature that can be added/modded/improved to counter-balance that other feature and not just assume its there to make things harder..

Example for recent Juggs:
-More unrealistic but add a wide array of fresh gameplay and tactics.
-They reward teamwork, shot placement, and good defense tactics.
-They penalize lone wolf run and gun players and those who are used to being stationary and camp.
-They also force players to take cover when they are used to holding their ground and spraying.
-On counter-attacks they offer a real challenge by burning defenders ammo, offering time for other bots to stop and shoot, and offer resistance on narrow paths that otherwise are easier to defend and mow down enemies with one MG.

Admittedly they were too OP and frequent, now I think they may be the polar opposite but I'm going to leave them as is for now so people realize this a bit more so I can then find a middle ground until I can really start working on implementing the improved bot spawning.