Stellaris

Stellaris

Vanilla Civics Redone
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Risker the 34th  [开发者] 2024 年 1 月 28 日 下午 1:22
Balance Discussions
I am not what many would consider to be a meta player. So my playtesting focuses on ensuring that things work as they are supposed to. If you feel something is too powerful or still not as powerful as it should be, let me know and i'll take a look. I don't want to replace untakeable civics with required civics.
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Odin 2024 年 2 月 24 日 下午 2:38 
Purely from a numbers perspective (not played the mod yet) it looks like the Byzantine Beuracracy is crazy powerful and nullifies influence as a rare resource. By endgame you could potentially have 1500-2k pops that generate tons of influence through those jobs.
Risker the 34th  [开发者] 2024 年 2 月 25 日 上午 7:20 
引用自 Odin
Purely from a numbers perspective (not played the mod yet) it looks like the Byzantine Beuracracy is crazy powerful and nullifies influence as a rare resource. By endgame you could potentially have 1500-2k pops that generate tons of influence through those jobs.


By late game, if you really want to conquer the galaxy 1) you should be able too, and 2) you aren't doing it with claims you're doing it with a colossus total war. Influence really doesn't have much value as the game progresses so having a ton of it isn't super important.

I mostly play on medium sized galaxies and much of the balance testing was done with that, in theory on a large galaxy with above average habitable worlds you could have insane numbers of pops like you describe but i find that to be an unlikely situation for someone to get into unintentionally and if their computer can handle that many pops they deserve whatever benefits that come with it.

I have toned down the amount of influence already and am amenable to further decreases but i need a more compelling reason than "in extremely rare edge cases someone with a pre-planned min-max build could do something crazy with this."
Odin 2024 年 2 月 25 日 上午 10:31 
引用自 Risker
I have toned down the amount of influence already and am amenable to further decreases but i need a more compelling reason than "in extremely rare edge cases someone with a pre-planned min-max build could do something crazy with this."

Well for reference
a) this isn't really a minmax edge case. I was just pointing out that getting .25 influence per 20 pops is kind of an insane amount of influence income.

b) getting 1.5k-2k pops is a pretty normal occurrence in my games where I play large galaxy GA 25x crisis midgame scale + .25 hab worlds provided you aren't playing pacifist or tall.

c) my issue isn't really too big of a deal I just think that .25 influence per 20 pops is very high. For reference your homeworld can get to 100 pops pretty quickly in this game and already that is .25*5 = 1.25 extra influence every month. It's your mod I don't mind how you do it. However, with how quickly populations scale in this game taking that civic early game for a militarist empire can easily lead to what is practically an unlimited supply of influence effectively deleting it as a constraint for the player. For reference some other mods that add influence income will usually add .25 base influence income and leave it at that. Or add something like a ruler job that adds .10 influence income but each planet can only have one of those ruler jobs.

Like I said. Not here to come after you or anything it is your mod and you can design it how you wish. I just noticed the .25 influence income per 20 pops on a planet and my eyes fell out of my head :spacepony:
Risker the 34th  [开发者] 2024 年 2 月 25 日 上午 10:43 
引用自 Odin
引用自 Risker
I have toned down the amount of influence already and am amenable to further decreases but i need a more compelling reason than "in extremely rare edge cases someone with a pre-planned min-max build could do something crazy with this."

Well for reference
a) this isn't really a minmax edge case. I was just pointing out that getting .25 influence per 20 pops is kind of an insane amount of influence income.

b) getting 1.5k-2k pops is a pretty normal occurrence in my games where I play large galaxy GA 25x crisis midgame scale + .25 hab worlds provided you aren't playing pacifist or tall.

c) my issue isn't really too big of a deal I just think that .25 influence per 20 pops is very high. For reference your homeworld can get to 100 pops pretty quickly in this game and already that is .25*5 = 1.25 extra influence every month. It's your mod I don't mind how you do it. However, with how quickly populations scale in this game taking that civic early game for a militarist empire can easily lead to what is practically an unlimited supply of influence effectively deleting it as a constraint for the player. For reference some other mods that add influence income will usually add .25 base influence income and leave it at that. Or add something like a ruler job that adds .10 influence income but each planet can only have one of those ruler jobs.

Like I said. Not here to come after you or anything it is your mod and you can design it how you wish. I just noticed the .25 influence income per 20 pops on a planet and my eyes fell out of my head :spacepony:


Influence is a resource that abrogates how much control the player/government has over its population. A Kafka-esque bureaucratic state would have a large amount of influence over the lives of its population and that influence would come from said bureaucrats.

I don't think i've ever played a game where the population of the Galaxy hit 2k pops, let alone a single empire and i've played a handful of games that were growth focused. I don't doubt it is possible, but i am highly skeptical that a random player would be able to hit this without trying. I am also skeptical that the game would be playable at a point where each empire is averaging 1-2k pops.

I would love nothing more than to fix the insanely outdated and broken peace and war systems in this game but much of that is hard coded unfortunately. If an AI empire has enough power to defeat you militarily then you are in trouble, if it takes them 10 wars to devour your empire or 5 doesn't seem particularly relevant considering you are dead either way.
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