Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord

Mount & Blade II: Bannerlord

The Old Realms - Core (Season of Doom)
Maelos 9 月 7 日 下午 1:52
Prestige gain way too low
It's kind of sad that it's infitnitely easier to get empire prestige as Eonir than an actual noble... Am I doing something wrong?

Prestigious projects are incredibly expensive and one-off, so that's not a decent way. Daily prestige gain for serving inside an army or hireling is kind of stupid, constantly praying is a pain, battles give ♥♥♥♥ all and tend to lose you more prestige through a single prestige unit getting killed in a freak accident than you gain and quests and hideouts are tedious as hell to constantly complete for prestige.

It's just almost impossible to sustain an elite army. It loses you more prestige than you gain in essentially all cases. Lost a single tier 9 unit in a large battle? You'll probably need two large battles to gain back what it took to upgrade the single troop. And in the other battle you'll likely lose another one anyways.

I guess this is more of a rant for the devs' obviously anti-doom stack approach in a singleplayer game where this kind of forced 'balance' doesn't matter, but it's kind of sad to see the Eonir and Wood Elves not suffer from the same problem anywhere near as much.

Really only vampires have it worse due to the abysmally low Dark Energy cap that you will constantly hit and drain in a couple days with any kind of elite army.

just kind of sad that the best way to get the full 'elite empire army' experience boils down to selling prisoners to the Witch King Envoy as Eonir and getting more prestige from a single battle than you get from a project that costs multiple hundreds of thousands of denars...
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R4MPZY  [开发者] 9 月 7 日 下午 1:53 
You can trade influence for prestige though, there's no cap on uses besides the amount of influence you have.

And Eonir are the only ones that can gain culture resource other then their own, so it might not work as intended yet. Will be adjusted slightly every update probably until we feel its right.

Also prestige gained is tied to renown, if you only do battles where you barely get any renown, then your prestige gain will be low aswell.

The vanilla perk that increases renown gain will also increase prestige gained.
最后由 R4MPZY 编辑于; 9 月 7 日 下午 1:55
Maelos 9 月 7 日 下午 2:56 
引用自 R4MPZY
You can trade influence for prestige though, there's no cap on uses besides the amount of influence you have.

And Eonir are the only ones that can gain culture resource other then their own, so it might not work as intended yet. Will be adjusted slightly every update probably until we feel its right.

I know about the influence thing, though I still feel like the math doesn't really work out, at least not until waaaay past the late game when your army is so strong that you won't lose any units anyways.

To do some quick calculations:

Let's say you're doing a normal mid-game battle like I just did against a mid-sized lord party with some elite units, some mid-tier ones and of course a decent amount of recruit trash. I have a pretty elite army of almost entirely tier 5+ units. I got a bit unlucky and lost a single outrider, a single valiant outrider, a single long rifle and a demigryph knight. If we count that all up, we get a loss of 75 prestige to get the units to where they were (if I had gotten unluckier with the death to wounded ratio, it would have been worse).

In this battle I got about 35 influence and 15 prestige (I have the perk). That's 15% of the 200 influence to prestige ratio which is 30 prestige plus the 15 from the battle and you get 45 prestige. If you lose two (of the rather squishy) top tier outrider units or god forbid a single Hergig marksman, your battle was neutral. If you get unlucky and you lose more, you get a net loss.

Now, what will that give when you get to the end game battles? What when you get to a siege? If 10 of your top tier units die, which can easily happen at that point, you have lost way more prestige than you'd ever reasonably get back from it. A single trebuchet volley will lead to a net loss and may set you back an hour of grinding prestige through hideouts and battles for influence, hoping that you don't lose more than you commited.

This is all of course assuming that you will actually get to control your units instead of the AI getting them killed en mass as they do in sieges. And let's not talk about 'sending troops', that's literally impossible with how costly the troops are because god knows the auto-resolve will screw you and get a demigryph killed fighting an outlaw party...

Honestly I feel like the devs have just taken a lot of the fun out of the mid-game with many of the top tier unit mechanics. Only the Eonir are reasonable and you're implying now that you'll 'update it', which I can only assume means nerf it so you're stuck gaining favour as quickly as prestige... I'll say it now: the only thing that makes the Eonir mechanic bearable is the Witch King envoy. I can reasonably get about 200-ish favour from prisoners in a good battle, which translates to 120 prestige, or, in Eonir terms, to about 4 top tier unit upgrades ( as in, four from the previous tier to the next at top tier).

Also, the influence thing is all good and well if you're the type that likes playing as a vassal. If you're a mercenary, you'll either need to camp around Altdorf and run back before your influence decays or you can just forget about using it at all. It also mentions in the guide that you get daily prestige as a hireling, but I don't think you do? I'm a merc and I get nothing at least.

All in all, I'd suggest either tweaking the costs for upgrades or just making the gold for prestige thing always available. Gold is a lot easier to amass than influence and with the two combined the balance of prestige lost to dead troops and gained through loot value and influence would feel a lot better. A good balance should really be that, in the mid to end game, if you're doing an epic siege and having fun, you don't have to think: 'Alright, this siege cost me 15 top tier units, I will now have to grind another hour to get the prestige for those back while hoping I don't lose any more during this grinding'. I assume at the end you'll hit critical mass and steamroll everything anyways, but getting there is just so very tedious now that it sucks the fun out of it.
最后由 Maelos 编辑于; 9 月 7 日 下午 4:14
R4MPZY  [开发者] 9 月 7 日 下午 6:37 
While custom resource costs might be tweaked over time, it will never be the point to have maxed out parties like in vanilla.

Our troops are much stronger then their vanilla counterparts and go up to tier 9 + have additional buffs, so we had to introduce a custom resource because gold is just laughably easy to get.

Additionally prestige is harder to obtain because they dont have any prestige unit upkeep for any of their units or cannons.
最后由 R4MPZY 编辑于; 9 月 7 日 下午 6:39
just wanted to say that field battle are still fine cuz quality over quantity but can 10 demigriph iner circle knights survive a direct catapult hit? cuz joining as a mercenary thats how i lost my 50 elite dudes does dudes costed me each way to much (ok i did not get to that far but you get what i am trying to say.) now my armies will be made out of only pikemans since they are a jack of all. kinda like a crap stack, cheap fast and plenty.

Just finished reading further, and isnt a easy fix to be you get a % of the prestige of the unit or a fixed by tier amount like at tier 2, 3, 4, (...) you get 1, 2, 3,(...) so you still need to kill ALOT but feel more tangeble and sustainable.
最后由 TheTowerHasVanished 编辑于; 10 月 14 日 上午 9:59
R4MPZY  [开发者] 10 月 14 日 上午 9:53 
引用自 TheTowerHasVanished
just wanted to say that field battle are still fine cuz quality over quantity but can 10 demigriph iner circle knights survive a direct catapult hit? cuz joining as a mercenary thats how i lost my 50 elite dudes does dudes costed me each way to much (ok i did not get to that far but you get what i am trying to say.) now my armies will be made out of only pikemans since they are a jack of all. kinda like a crap stack, cheap fast and plenty.
dont think anything can survive an onager direct hit, deals like 2k damage
引用自 Maelos
引用自 R4MPZY
You can trade influence for prestige though, there's no cap on uses besides the amount of influence you have.

And Eonir are the only ones that can gain culture resource other then their own, so it might not work as intended yet. Will be adjusted slightly every update probably until we feel its right.

I assume at the end you'll hit critical mass and steamroll everything anyways, but getting there is just so very tedious now that it sucks the fun out of it.

but with the current state of the mod you can make 23 grifans with 2500 prestige is that a late game army? dont think so also becuase this mod adds ALOT of swing pole arms and high dmg projectiles to all tiers.
R4MPZY  [开发者] 10 月 14 日 上午 11:01 
Only 23 is not late game no
BTW after being afk as a sell sword for 450 days to get 2500 prestige i found out that alot of villages produced tier 6 and higher troops so thats cool xd
R4MPZY  [开发者] 10 月 14 日 下午 12:48 
yeah the longer a campaign takes the more chance for high end stuff to show up
引用自 R4MPZY
You can trade influence for prestige though, there's no cap on uses besides the amount of influence you have.

And Eonir are the only ones that can gain culture resource other then their own, so it might not work as intended yet. Will be adjusted slightly every update probably until we feel its right.

Also prestige gained is tied to renown, if you only do battles where you barely get any renown, then your prestige gain will be low aswell.

The vanilla perk that increases renown gain will also increase prestige gained.
It would be great to be able to send a messenger to Altdorf to exchange influence for prestige. Perhaps when you interacted with the connected noble enough. Regular visits to Altdorf are a distraction from the war on the edge of the map, especially when you are the ruler.

Speaking of the Bretonnian equivalent of prestige. You fight against Chaos 24/7 - Chivalry gain is miserable, Grail Knights aren't impressed...But once you defeat one human party, you get a ton of prestige because of all those released prisoners (you were going to release them anyway, what do you do with them). So, you are encouraged to use the Grail Knights to fight against Bretonnia and the Empire lol.
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