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Avorion >  创意工坊 > LM13 的创意工坊 > [2.5.2+] Xavorion: eXtended Avorion > 讨论
[2.5.2+] Xavorion: eXtended Avorion
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OveglFhzl 2024 年 6 月 23 日 上午 7:09
Review of Xavorion eXtended after 2 playthroughs (2/2)

Second Playthrough: Insane

Refer to settings from first Normal playthrough. Only differences to Insane are Enemy Damage at 200% and relations to factions are at the worst.

Pre-Barrier
  • (Same in vanilla) If you're not ready for SWOKS, can abuse despawn SWOKS by quit to main menu, re-enter game or alt+f4 immediately (unless popped in 1 shot). (Also since same spawn mechanic as AI can also be abused same way if not ready.)
  • Xanion knowledge in 2hr 10mins
  • Wow wave of pirates got hands just outside the barrier on Insane.
  • Closer to the barrier, "safe" energy signatures may have a large wave of pirates spawning + deletes 3mil~ shields in few hits.
  • Everything else pretty much same-y as Normal run, just play a bit more 'sneaky', less combat stuff. (just like a vanilla playthrough)
  • I personally have never done this pre-barrier, but for Insane, founding a Resource Depot in a sector where you can sell at least 2 of; trin/xan/ogo > nice way to sell from mining fleet for creds
  • Sell resources from mining fleet to own Resource Depot for cred > use cred for a quick, random find of a coax turret from an npc turret factory with 3-4mil crit dmg for good omicron ambush lowering chance for ships constantly doing missions (scout ship, mining fleet, trader ship(s)).
  • Also do something I'd never do vanilla > make own Turret Factory just outside barrier in a friendly sector also trying to find as high tech lvl friendly sector. I personally kitted-out main and 2 scout ships with tech 42 turrets.
  • Investigate Missing Fighters still best to get alliance by the barrier just like vanilla.
  • Managed to find ogonite knowledge this run pre-barrier compared to Normal.

Inside the barrier/Endgame
  • The 'number' increase on Insane within the barrier is absolutely crazy > try to avoid as much combat as you can while getting avorion knowledge.
  • 29hrs to get avorion knowledge
  • Same-y as Normal run just bigger number from everything.
  • Own made Turret Factories producing the exact same turrets from Normal run. No variety at all.
  • XWG and Corrupt AI also a joke, just bigger hp bar really.
  • Again, just like vanilla and mentioned in Normal run, just don't kill XWG. Xsotan Invasion event is so annoying.
  • Since rift missions themselves aren't worth it for the time, retired rift ship to just be a +1 ship to patrol at base.
  • Stopped playing Insane playthrough at only 97hrs.

https://psteamcommunity.yuanyoumao.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3273748988

There was a bug with rifts recently in Avorion. So I was in the beta branch when this happened to my base in the image above. And good thing I made a backup of my galaxies. Seems like; one main ship 1mil/300mil (hull/shields), two tank ships 2mil/2.5bil, and two trader ships 1mil/500mil, all with at least 5mil+ omicron CANNOT defend against the spawn event of 'Danger. A large swarm of xsotan has appeared!'

I came back from dinner and saw all my ships and stations in my base destroyed, as I felt comfortable having an Energy Suppressor Satellite run out of it's 10hr time limit. Which... well as per image above, make sure your base sector that you're afk at ALWAYS HAVE AN ENERGY SUPPRESSOR SATELLITE AT ALL COSTS. What's strange is that Xsotan Invasion event is absolutely no problem at all, but the large spawn of xsotan event becomes a risk, somehow.



Conclusion/Rant

The longer I played Xavorion eXtended, the more I realized that this mod just isn't for me. After thousands of hours into Avorion across 7 playthroughs before trying out this mod, most of the subsystems are not relevant to my style of gameplay at all. The whole "class system" exists I guess. To me it feels extremely weird that there are subystems that are only for specific subsystem-slot ships, and some subsystems that are only for ships, and some only for stations. It is nice seeing boarding a tiny, tiny amount more frequent in xAvorion, however on the whole, in both vanilla and extrme modded gameplay, boarding is still very redundant despite being a nice concept to have.

Endgame isn't flushed out in content for this mod? There is absolutely no point in having trillions of credits. The whole "factorio" side of Avorion is functionally not present. There's no variety at all rolling Turret Factories, so having billions of credits constantly rolling is not necessary. The cost of turrets themselves is so dirt-cheap. Just like vanilla, I guess the 'endgame' is Build Mode.

The one thing that I would really want removed if I was to ever come back to playing this mod for a third time, is the movement restrictions in yaw/pitch/roll, as well as velocity and max speed for every subsystem slot removed entirely. Before you get a long ranged cannon/railgun, fighting is so painfully long, slow, and boring. Say your ship's max speed is 900m/s > pirate wave sector > takes 1 whole min to rotate the ship > destroy enemies within 20km range > another wave spawns in > 50km away > takes 1 whole min to rotate the ship > pirate max speed is either 300/500/700m/s > it's like a turtle racing towards each other > sooooo slooowwwwwwww > when you as the player finally have your weapons in range you can then fire at the enemy. Personally I would just jump out after popping 1/2 pirates. It's so painfully slow. Over the course of getting to avorion knowledge I could straight up shave off a whole hour or 2 just because of how damn slow it is to play Xavorion eXtended.

Using the exact same ship in both vanilla and Xavorion eXtended it is night and day the movement you can have in vanilla. Just boosting and flying around in vanilla is actually... fun! Also, for anyone who also has about the same movement stats for ships with 10-12 subsystem slots in vanilla... I'm sorry but your ship is objectively bad. Why is your ship such an immovable target? Might as well use stone blocks if you can't move your ship. Wayyy back in my first ever galaxy playthrough of Avorion my 'tank' ships had "poor" movement stats at 0.2 pitch/yaw/roll. Even my stone brick ship design dedicated to farm the MAD Lab boss pre-barrier has better movement stats than a 15-slot ship in Xavorion eXtended. If I want more movement, then I just place more movement blocks. That's why I like the sandbox-freedom of vanilla Avorion.

Looking at it from a different perspective, I can see the argument where with the lack of movement, you don't need to use more blocks to improve movement, and invest more into other blocks, notably shield blocks (espcially on Insane).

Ultimately, this was at least a nice experience to know that other space games that are similar to Xavorion eXtended really isn't my type of video game. Fleet management and strategy-mode gameplay isn't my kind of thing. There are way too many restrictions and the endgame isn't really flushed out.


Images

https://psteamcommunity.yuanyoumao.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3274357606
List of mods used for both Normal and Insane runs.

https://psteamcommunity.yuanyoumao.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3274364360
Wew. Stronk. 16km range is... okay at least. Range still not that desirable imo.

https://psteamcommunity.yuanyoumao.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3274375999
How I use my turrets in Xavorion eXtended.



Edit1: Adding images.

Raw Notes Dump
map view > right click commonly does not show drop-down menu jumps directly to ship right click also cannot jump to ship at times either (^^^seems to be one of the qol mods i use that's causing this bug) energy hungry mod for ships at least 3x or 4x generated energy > req. energy procure 800 research data for 2 rift items; rift Bulwark rift Reviving Guardian reducing ambush chance bare min. for mining fleet: (normal) 800k hull 30mil shield 30k omicron 900k hull 12mil shield 61k omicron 1.1mil hull 18mil shield 48k omicron (insane) 1.9mil hull 50mil shield 24k omicron 1.1mil hull 23mil shield 67k omicron sector info notes tend to duplicate smuggler hideouts in "shipyard, ???" sometimes may be pirate bases scouting bugged af vanilla turrets can't be researched at all???? even if vanilla-only or mixed with xavorion turrets vanilla force turrets can be researched researching should respect tech level of sector more researching is almost not worth for turrets at all own made turret factory has next to no variety seems like great numbers but actually mediocre m2/4/6 hardpoint: armed not compatible with stations ?????????? slightly better docking distance to transfer crew 1.5km than vanilla 0.5km establish base at tech 52 sector with avorion only (gets cucked by resource depot tho) don't establish in ogo/avo) it's a lot more efficient to collect loot in drone than in a ship sometimes slow as heck ships own base sector in tech 52, but highest tech lvl drop from fidgets are tech 45 ?????????? bug? "Fighter Squadrons" on XSTN AI recognised for Simultaneous Mining Hangar Bay: Extension subsystem with "Hangar Capacity" not recognized for Simultaneous Mining > needs at least XSTN-AI for the Hangar: Bay subsystems to 'work' for Simultaneous Mining to add more rows any subsystem related to unarmed turrets are redundant in endgame due to fighters combat fighters better range but still not that desirable 16km max > 3.5km vanilla ai is 'smarter' that it can "jump out" if not enough dps xstn ai bits can jump out of the sector fidget can jump out if not fast enough to kill it fidget and xstn energy boss may spawn being immune to all damage *Worst thing about xAvorion mod is movement restricted by ship class (yaw/pitch/roll/accel/deccel) aids af some xavorion subsystems can only be used on specific slot/ship class aids af pointless. even by 12-slots movement is so bad can't move at all 15 slot ships might as well be made out of stone + thrusters/gyros rifts: xsotan attracted to wormhole generator > knocks to 1000m/s+ > rift ship max speed only 700-800m/s > waste of ♥♥♥♥♥ time > alt+f4 > lose all rift progress and time > jump back to rift sector > repeat suffering worser if whole rift takes 20+ mins before wormhole generator resource depots with material noted in sector REALLY screws you over only able to sell specific ores only bug when you make a new ship, the movement may be "stuck" exit out into drone and re-enter ship so it can move -------- VOLT = Energy System Upgrade Squadron = Hangar Bay / one for stations / one for ships ^^^^^^ from Shipyards Energy-to-Shield = Shield Support System ^^^^^ from Civil Defenses Market M4 Hardpoint: Universal > XSTN Arbitrary Armed > XSTN Armed Unarmed > XSTN Unarmed ^^^^^ chance from Repair Docks -------- <<Miners>> Civil Hardpoints > XSTN Unarmed chance from Resource Depots at least Rare > XSTN Unarmed only 6 rows miners required to 100% all, no mining turrets needed need combat turrets to raise omicron to reduce ambush chance <<Salvagers>> 3 rows of salvaging fighters is perfectly fine 4 rows give max possible yield (tiny bit more over 6-8hr salvage mission) no turrets needed no need combat turrets at all salvage fighters carry the omicron to lower ambush chance already --------- can abuse despawn SWOKS by quit to main menu re-enter game or alt+f4 (unless popped in 1 shot) odd inventory sorting M4 Hardpoints > M6 Hardpoints > M2 Hardpoints ----------------- <<<MANUAL PROCURE/SELL>>> beta (Ospa, merch + miner) 47mil > 84mil = 37mil profit 3hr 4min 2min travel 20min sell 206mins total = 11.1mil/hr ---------------- <<Insane playthrough notes>> closer to the barrier, "safe" energy signatures may have a large wave of pirates spawning + deletes 3mil~ shields in few hits vanilla Insane/Normal xavorion zzzzz Insane xavorion got hands ogonite knowledge is optional Investigate Missing Fighters still best to get alliance by the barrier just like vanilla 40mil shields can't even handle wave of pirates on autopilot large pirate wave in xanion region might as well be a whole faction war any rift mission with a Wormhole Generator is basically impossible Wormhole Generator knocked by the xsotan like a moth to light faster than maxed rift ship can fly self owned turret factory as long as in avorion sector and tech 50+ will roll exact same kind of turrets no variety xavorion as per usual rolling EXACTLY the same turrets as Normal playthrough both normal and insane XWG and corrupt AI are easy xsotan invasion annoying af as per usual easy, same laggy mess just like vanilla not recommended to kill XWG like vanilla just don't. insane also no need for any turrets on salvager ship ----------------------------------------- Normal: 5hr 2min found all building knowledge till xanion seems very rng/random dependant 32hr avorion knowledge 36hr establish base near 0,0 48hr first bil credits ended Normal on 126hrs. nothing to do endgame no point turret rolling nor factorio Insane: 2hr 10min xanion knowledge 29hrs avorion knowledge 33hr establish base near 0,0 ---------------------------------------------- <<<shipSetups_xAvorionVersion>>> ALL ARE ASSUMED LEGENDARY UNLESS SPECIFIED <Shield options> NO Into The Rift DLC; (no durability, pure shielding) 1. core module: defender 2. internal structure: shielding 3. engine: feedback 4. shield support system(s)... YES Into The Rift DLC; (some durability, more shielding) 1. core module: defender 2. rift Energizing Reviving 3. internal structure: shielding 4. engine: feedback 5. shield support system(s)... [ships more on missions] YES Into The Rift DLC; (more durability, less shielding) 1. rift Hardening Reviving Bulwark 2. rift Energizing Reviving 3. internal structure: shielding 4. engine: feedback 5. shield support system(s)... [ships more on active playing] >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> xMiner 1. xstn energy 2. m6 hardpoint: universal / autonomous 3. m4/m6 hardpoint (depending on ship build) 4. m4/m6 hardpoint (depending on ship build) 5. xstn AI 6. docking 7. core module: defender 8. rift Energizing Reviving 9. internal structure: shielding 10. engine: feedback 11. shield support system 12. shield support system 13. xstn brotherhood 14. hangar bay: extension (PETTY BIS) 15. [free] - more shields - more energy - velocity ~~ should have 6 rows of miner fighters ~~ no mining turrets req. xSalvager same as xMiner ~~ hangar bay: extension not required ~~ ~~ should have 4 rows of salvager fighters ~~ (3 rows is also fine) no salvage turrets req. no combat turrets req. (4 rows salvage fighters have omicron carrying) - no need shield support systems really = 4 free subsystem slots xTrader 1. xstn energy 2. m6 hardpoint: universal 3. m6 hardpoint: armed 4. m6 hardpoint: armed 5. trader / rift Long-Distance-Trader 6. core module: defender 7. rift Energizing Reviving 8. internal structure: shielding 9. engine: feedback 10. shield support system 11. shield support system 12. xstn brotherhood 13. shield support system 14. shield support system / more energy / dock (before rifts) 15. shield support system xMain 1. xstn energy 2. m6 hardpoint: universal 3. m6 hardpoint: armed 4. m6 hardpoint: armed 5. docking 6. xstn hyperspace jump 7. rift Hardening Reviving Bulwark 8. rift Energizing Reviving 9. internal structure: shielding 10. engine: feedback 11. shield support system 12. shield support system 13. xstn brotherhood 14. shield support system 15. shield support system 15th slot alternatives; - Hyperspace Range Booster - object detector xTank 1. xstn energy 2. m6 hardpoint: armed 3. m6 hardpoint: armed 4. m6 hardpoint: armed 5. docking 6. core module: defender 7. rift Energizing Reviving 8. internal structure: shielding 9. engine: feedback 10. shield support system 11. shield support system 12. shield support system 13. shield support system 14. xstn brotherhood 15. shield support system / more energy xRift 1. xstn energy 2. rift Combat Generator Energizer 3. m6 hardpoint: armed 4. m6 hardpoint: armed 5. rift Combat Aegis 6. rift Interceptor-Class Turret 7. rift Long Distance-Trader 8. shield support system 9. core module: defender 10. internal structure: shielding 11. engine: feedback 12. shield support system 13. hangar bay: extension 14. shield support system 15. rift Energizing Reviving Protector
最后由 OveglFhzl 编辑于; 2024 年 6 月 24 日 上午 1:44
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LM13  [开发者] 2024 年 6 月 23 日 上午 9:11 
To continue from part 1...

I'd say that a lot of issues were addressed with Combat Rebalance update,
but given your preffered playstyle - there isnt much more in maxing out than you've already seen.

While it is possible now to fly a single a ship, without reaching 10-15 slots - that clearly wasn't what you were looking for.
Yeah, I've focused mostly on Class/Role gameplay around RTS/TPP, but vanilla did a better job of progressing "upwards".
Especially for less active gameplay.

Combat and progression is built around varied fleets of heavy, long range ships, supported by smaller, fast moving formations - or just action TPP with smaller ships.
But that's just the direction I've picked few years ago.
A large change over vanilla, and definitely not something everyone will like.

Anyway, I really appreciate your effort.
To be fair, I did not expect players with your playstyle to spend over 100 hours here.

Thank you,
even though it did not deliver to your expectations.
#1
OveglFhzl 2024 年 6 月 24 日 上午 7:17 
Hmm...

Even if for someone like me who's into the more arcade-y space games tried to do mass designated fleet-style game play in Avorion... imo I don't think Avorion in it's base works well actually.

I personally would just see 3-5 slot ships as ships for drawing fire/distraction, while my dreadnoughts would gun everything down. But then because of how I would play, I would place cannons, railguns, plasma/electric pulse turrets on all of my ships. And because the 3-5 slot ships have basically no stats, they're gonna be popped in 1/2 hits anyways. So probably just the pulse turrets no cannons/railguns for those puny ships. And then on Insane where even 40mil shields impenetrable just outside the barrier isn't enough for 1 ship, even if you have like 5 of these ships, imo you'll barely make it out alive on Insane withing losing several of your 5 ships.
#2
LM13  [开发者] 2024 年 6 月 24 日 上午 7:25 
引用自 OveglFhzl：
Hmm...

Even if for someone like me who's into the more arcade-y space games tried to do mass designated fleet-style game play in Avorion... imo I don't think Avorion in it's base works well actually.

I personally would just see 3-5 slot ships as ships for drawing fire/distraction, while my dreadnoughts would gun everything down. But then because of how I would play, I would place cannons, railguns, plasma/electric pulse turrets on all of my ships. And because the 3-5 slot ships have basically no stats, they're gonna be popped in 1/2 hits anyways. So probably just the pulse turrets no cannons/railguns for those puny ships. And then on Insane where even 40mil shields impenetrable just outside the barrier isn't enough for 1 ship, even if you have like 5 of these ships, imo you'll barely make it out alive on Insane withing losing several of your 5 ships.

Yup, that's why combat rebalance happened. Regular M6+ weapons can easily reach 30+km in range, and their accuracy works against large ships, keeping fast ships safer from damage.

As mentioned earlier, previous combat balance completely failed to support Class/Role system.
Normally, you should be able to use M3 bomber/EMP ships against M7/M8 enemy, while firing long range artillery strikes from other ships.
#3
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