引用自 hahaha01357：

So I tried another Carthage campaign and I'm getting the feeling that it's pretty much impossible? Carthage starts with -170 food and -35 to -55 in every settlement from native discontent. So right off the bat, you're constantly suffering from attrition and have to choose between upgrading your settlements to mitigate the native discontent or building up farmlands. Either way your starting funds won't be able to do both and your tanking public order means you're in bankrupcy starting turn 5 or 6 with rebellions popping up everywhere. Is this working as intended? I thought North Africa was a net exporter of food in this period? Being one of the breadbaskets of the Roman Empire? Also isn't Carthage supposed to be more financially resilient than this? I understand by the end of the Second Punic War, Carthage was supposed to be near bankruptcy but so was Rome and Carthage was able to pay off the enormous endemnities imposed upon it without too much trouble. What is the design philosophy behind the starting situation for Carthage here? Has anyone had success playing Carthage?

Well part of the reason that Carthage was able to pay off their debts after the 2nd Punic war was because they developed the forunner of the latifundia industrial farms that the Romans later copied. Before that, the Carthaginians were primarily traders so Idk that they did much farming and likely would have imported their food (I could be wrong so someone feel free to correct me). I do think Carthage's issues might be a little bit more severe compared to Rome in this sense and probably should be reduced IMO. In general I think there should be less emphasis on the initial shock value of the starting campaign for Carthage and Rome especially given the wide range of other early game challenges that both face and more should be dedicated to increasing the long game difficulty as the game is really easy if you can survive the early game and get everything running

引用自 TFMbobcat：

In general I think there should be less emphasis on the initial shock value of the starting campaign for Carthage and Rome especially given the wide range of other early game challenges that both face and more should be dedicated to increasing the long game difficulty as the game is really easy if you can survive the early game and get everything running

Which I have never been able to do because of turns taking literally hours esp. with Carthage because I keep thinking about how to handle this and that lol and I don't have that much time to play. So, even if true, I wouldn't know.

引用自 TFMbobcat：

引用自 hahaha01357：

So I tried another Carthage campaign and I'm getting the feeling that it's pretty much impossible? Carthage starts with -170 food and -35 to -55 in every settlement from native discontent. So right off the bat, you're constantly suffering from attrition and have to choose between upgrading your settlements to mitigate the native discontent or building up farmlands. Either way your starting funds won't be able to do both and your tanking public order means you're in bankrupcy starting turn 5 or 6 with rebellions popping up everywhere. Is this working as intended? I thought North Africa was a net exporter of food in this period? Being one of the breadbaskets of the Roman Empire? Also isn't Carthage supposed to be more financially resilient than this? I understand by the end of the Second Punic War, Carthage was supposed to be near bankruptcy but so was Rome and Carthage was able to pay off the enormous endemnities imposed upon it without too much trouble. What is the design philosophy behind the starting situation for Carthage here? Has anyone had success playing Carthage?

Well part of the reason that Carthage was able to pay off their debts after the 2nd Punic war was because they developed the forunner of the latifundia industrial farms that the Romans later copied. Before that, the Carthaginians were primarily traders so Idk that they did much farming and likely would have imported their food (I could be wrong so someone feel free to correct me). I do think Carthage's issues might be a little bit more severe compared to Rome in this sense and probably should be reduced IMO. In general I think there should be less emphasis on the initial shock value of the starting campaign for Carthage and Rome especially given the wide range of other early game challenges that both face and more should be dedicated to increasing the long game difficulty as the game is really easy if you can survive the early game and get everything running

The point about food was the native fertility of North Africa. At that time, the region was much more fertile to the point that it actually took the title of "breadbasket" of the Roman Empire from Egypt - which presented an enormous problem when the Vandals took it. And while the Carthaginians were noted primarily as traders, it didn't mean they didn't farm. In fact, they actually practised some pretty advanced methods of agriculture such that when Rome captured Carthage in 146 BCE, the Senate decreed that Mago's treatise on agriculture be translated into Latin.

Regardless, how does one even survive the early game as Carthage right now?

引用自 hahaha01357：

引用自 TFMbobcat：

Well part of the reason that Carthage was able to pay off their debts after the 2nd Punic war was because they developed the forunner of the latifundia industrial farms that the Romans later copied. Before that, the Carthaginians were primarily traders so Idk that they did much farming and likely would have imported their food (I could be wrong so someone feel free to correct me). I do think Carthage's issues might be a little bit more severe compared to Rome in this sense and probably should be reduced IMO. In general I think there should be less emphasis on the initial shock value of the starting campaign for Carthage and Rome especially given the wide range of other early game challenges that both face and more should be dedicated to increasing the long game difficulty as the game is really easy if you can survive the early game and get everything running

The point about food was the native fertility of North Africa. At that time, the region was much more fertile to the point that it actually took the title of "breadbasket" of the Roman Empire from Egypt - which presented an enormous problem when the Vandals took it. And while the Carthaginians were noted primarily as traders, it didn't mean they didn't farm. In fact, they actually practised some pretty advanced methods of agriculture such that when Rome captured Carthage in 146 BCE, the Senate decreed that Mago's treatise on agriculture be translated into Latin.

Regardless, how does one even survive the early game as Carthage right now?

That is what I was talking about, those agricultural advances were developed AFTER the 2nd Punic war. This mod starts at the tail end of the 2nd Punic war which would be before Carthage began their agricultural development. Before those developments, they would likely have more closely resembled ancient Athens in structure i.e. they were traders who imported most of their food or relied on others. Thats not to say that they would not have grown some of their own food but considering that it was the profits from their advances in agriculture that would pay off their debts to the Romans from the 2nd Punic war I'd say its relatively safe to say that agriculture was nowhere near as significant a factor in the Carthaginian economy at the time of the mods start.

That said I do agree that the mod is being a little silly with the negative food for Carthage and having not played as Carthage I cant give any specific advice but Rome does have a similar start to Carthage and the best thing to do is to build happiness buildings to get unrest down and slow down potential rebellions, build resource buildings to increase trade income and be more enticing for trade deals and explore the map with a lone unit fleet to search out new undiscovered trade partners with which to increase your income as you wait to be able to stabalize your public order and get your proper domestic economy up and running. It really isnt worth trying to build up the domestic economy before then as low PO will severely cut into your tax revenue leaving you with a lot of maintenance costs and not a lot of income

引用自 TFMbobcat：

引用自 hahaha01357：

The point about food was the native fertility of North Africa. At that time, the region was much more fertile to the point that it actually took the title of "breadbasket" of the Roman Empire from Egypt - which presented an enormous problem when the Vandals took it. And while the Carthaginians were noted primarily as traders, it didn't mean they didn't farm. In fact, they actually practised some pretty advanced methods of agriculture such that when Rome captured Carthage in 146 BCE, the Senate decreed that Mago's treatise on agriculture be translated into Latin.

Regardless, how does one even survive the early game as Carthage right now?

That is what I was talking about, those agricultural advances were developed AFTER the 2nd Punic war. This mod starts at the tail end of the 2nd Punic war which would be before Carthage began their agricultural development. Before those developments, they would likely have more closely resembled ancient Athens in structure i.e. they were traders who imported most of their food or relied on others. Thats not to say that they would not have grown some of their own food but considering that it was the profits from their advances in agriculture that would pay off their debts to the Romans from the 2nd Punic war I'd say its relatively safe to say that agriculture was nowhere near as significant a factor in the Carthaginian economy at the time of the mods start.

That said I do agree that the mod is being a little silly with the negative food for Carthage and having not played as Carthage I cant give any specific advice but Rome does have a similar start to Carthage and the best thing to do is to build happiness buildings to get unrest down and slow down potential rebellions, build resource buildings to increase trade income and be more enticing for trade deals and explore the map with a lone unit fleet to search out new undiscovered trade partners with which to increase your income as you wait to be able to stabalize your public order and get your proper domestic economy up and running. It really isnt worth trying to build up the domestic economy before then as low PO will severely cut into your tax revenue leaving you with a lot of maintenance costs and not a lot of income

No I'm not disagreeing with you that prior to the Second Punic War, agriculture wasn't a big focus for Carthage. I'm saying the native fertility of the provinces are way too low for them to be a supposed bread basket of the Meditteranean. Anyways, so the idea is to build up an economy through trade and slowly combat the food shortages with fisheries and farms? How do you combat the public order penalties? There's all these Berber and Italian influence in my provinces that I'm never able to get my own to more than 70%. Where are those influences coming from? Adjascent provinces? Sea tiles?

引用自 hahaha01357：

引用自 TFMbobcat：

That is what I was talking about, those agricultural advances were developed AFTER the 2nd Punic war. This mod starts at the tail end of the 2nd Punic war which would be before Carthage began their agricultural development. Before those developments, they would likely have more closely resembled ancient Athens in structure i.e. they were traders who imported most of their food or relied on others. Thats not to say that they would not have grown some of their own food but considering that it was the profits from their advances in agriculture that would pay off their debts to the Romans from the 2nd Punic war I'd say its relatively safe to say that agriculture was nowhere near as significant a factor in the Carthaginian economy at the time of the mods start.

That said I do agree that the mod is being a little silly with the negative food for Carthage and having not played as Carthage I cant give any specific advice but Rome does have a similar start to Carthage and the best thing to do is to build happiness buildings to get unrest down and slow down potential rebellions, build resource buildings to increase trade income and be more enticing for trade deals and explore the map with a lone unit fleet to search out new undiscovered trade partners with which to increase your income as you wait to be able to stabalize your public order and get your proper domestic economy up and running. It really isnt worth trying to build up the domestic economy before then as low PO will severely cut into your tax revenue leaving you with a lot of maintenance costs and not a lot of income

No I'm not disagreeing with you that prior to the Second Punic War, agriculture wasn't a big focus for Carthage. I'm saying the native fertility of the provinces are way too low for them to be a supposed bread basket of the Meditteranean. Anyways, so the idea is to build up an economy through trade and slowly combat the food shortages with fisheries and farms? How do you combat the public order penalties? There's all these Berber and Italian influence in my provinces that I'm never able to get my own to more than 70%. Where are those influences coming from? Adjascent provinces? Sea tiles?

That is the basic idea. The best way to increase PO is to look at what is cause the low PO in the first place. One thing that can cause low PO is lack of food so either build a farm or 2 in provinces or a granary and import it (though that does cost money). As for native discontent I'm not very familiar with Carthage's set of buildings but when I play as Rome, there are some types of building I look for. The first is the government building you have in each settlement. For Rome you generally start out with government buildings with good economic value and better cultural influence but which have very negative impacts on native discontent. You are going to want to swap those out for other government buildings that produce less native discontent. another thing is sanitation buildings and religious buildings. The early stage sanitation building usually provide a boost in happiness and can be built quickly and are comparatively cheap to buy and maintain but you only really need 1 per province or you will create problems down the road (also build Carthage's equivalent of an aqueduct if they have one as that will be very important later and should give some happiness bonus). The religious buildings will create some discontent with the natives but usually not quite as much, at least early on, as the government building while adding a significant happiness boost for your culture. Usually this will bring down unhappiness quickly enough to keep things from getting to be too uncomfortable but you will have to build these buildings along side your resource buildings as these buildings, while good for PO, will generate their maintenance costs that will have to be balanced or out paced by your trade income. Some other tips are to get income by achieving quests (if feasible this early and if it won't jeopardize the security of your territory) and spend as much money per turn as you can even if you have a deficit as you will likely lose that money anyway for little gain whereas in the present you can spend it on something of value while you sweat it out waiting for your next paycheck.

Just on a final note regarding fertility, as far as I can tell the devs seem to intend fertility to be semi random as fertility fluctuates between seasons and from year to year simulating good and bad harvests but I do think that the current system is too random in this regard