Have you considered changing the ogre labourers to the pickaxes that the granite guard use, i feel that they would be more fitting for a slave unit compared to the dragon ogre weapons that they currently have

I went for 28 because I went for percentage based on other laboureres. Compare Goblin and Orc labourers with their counterparts. :) 32 might be a number to think of too, but they'd have to be nerfed to compensate.

Lovely addition, though the unit size makes me scratch my head somewhat.
Why 28? Why not 32 or 48? 32 would be twice the number of higher-tier Ogre infantry and 48 would be twice the number of regular Ogre Bulls. I would suggest going with 48 and maybe weakening them a little if need be.

Glad you adopted this mod! I'm using another mod that gives lords the horde building panel, anyway to allow the unit to be recruited from that panel?

Ogre Slave*

Damn. Those Chaos Dwarves must be some cruel bastards for not providing them gut plates.

@River
Hm, you'd likely have to change his animation into something else. Which will conflict with other mechanics of Malus'. I'd not give him a shield, but maybe an animation wizard could

Is there a way to give Malus Darkblade a shield?
He uses one in the books after all.
Lovely mod by the way!

:')

props for bro doing small mods that other creators would just brush it off thanks man <3

they feel fine for me, love these guys

If the unit feels overtuned, pls let me know

Mod updated:
A small buff for the unit. They felt worse than Orc Labourers.
Also made some general balance fixes like having the unit available earlier

@Daverin2112
So I checked the files.
Ogre bulls do NOT have siege attacker or wallbreaker. Attacking gates is a normal thing any unit can do.

Many ogre units do indeed have siege attacker, but the basic ogres do not. I conclude that with that in mind, neither should this unit

I'll look into it

So fun fact, I checked the wiki to reference the below, but in game the ogres do not show siege attacker. BUT. They still HAVE it. I witnessed ogre bulls slowly battering down a gate during a Bastion fight.

Weird.

For intents and purposes of inspiration, "Mesopotamia" and "Babylon" are sufficiently congruent to become a distinction without a difference. This would be hilariously insensitive in actually comparing in the real world, but in terms of how to describe Chorfs... both work just fine.

And no, they removed wallbreaker. Ogres would be WAY to volatile in siege if they couldn't at least hammer the gates down, still.

@Father Ribs
I think CD in TT was more "mesopotamia". Which idk maybe it is "babylon" theme, i am not a historian haha. I just heard someone compare CD with Mesoptomian style or something. Heck maybe it's even synonymous. If that's the case I'd look pretty dumb right about now haha!

Yeah sure CD doesn't nessecarily "need" the unit, but I think it could be fun at least :)

@Daverin2112
But they removed siege attacker from the Ogre Kingdoms regular unit roster, no?

@mario if he piss
Great! If you have any balance ideas, please let me know!

Great mod for more variety and flavor.

Small point I forgot to mention... don't forget to add siege attacker!

@Govenoren

My go-to anti-large is CD shotguns to the maw, but I do think the idea of a forced-servitude race should have a variety of labor factions, if only because I take a more rp-ish approach to the game. You just know they'd parade around a bunch of captured dawi and who knows...maybe even a jannisary-type unit (though I never did CD in TT because they changed from chaos to Babylon themes, so no idea of the lore).

@Father Ribs
I do my best. Please do give them a try and be critical. I need more than just 1 person's opinion.

@Daverin2112
They are broken in players hands, crap in AI. I feel like I want something to fit a place both ways. An early anti large option is not a bad deal for Chorfs. Without erasing the use of Bull Centair anti large.

@Warder117
Correct :)

Do they benefit from any lords buffs? Namely the red line skills?

It's extra important for Chorfs, too. Ironically, they already become broken, but they are one of the better factions at making you advance to that stage at least. So having the chaff units not be too good is very important for their identity.

Just finished an ogre campaign but I'll try this on the next rotation; just wanted to say I appreciate when modders try to make balanced units rather than immersion-breaking cheat toys. Looking forward to it.

No plans for that. Imo they look as intended

I know not as important probably. Would you be able to give the models a big rope or chain belt? It looks odd seeing the gutplate strap without the gutplate. Or maybe give them a big piece of wood as their gutplate.

Perfectly sound argument. I have implemented it on my side. Still want a bit more tweaks before patching this mod

You also gotta consider, for the Dawi Zharr, t3 is about when the transition from raw crapstacks to chorf core begins in earnest, so it feels odd to get a shiny new slave while you are getting the dopamine from your armies getting more of the real baddies.

I was also debating hard. I just safe chose tier 3 haha.
But they are not even close to warrant that late of recruitment.

So far I have done a few minor tweaks. But I have yet to test my results. Waiting for more feedback.

I hadn‘t even gotten to checking campaign yet. T3??? Nah, heck nah, that’s needless, even if chorfs are one of the best at building tall. T2 is perfectly fine, I just default assumed it’d be there or earlier. The only slavestack unit that should warrant that is if ever you or anyone revives a mod for blorc mercenaries or somesuch.

Correct. I was also worried about that. I didn't want the anti large they provide to be that significant. Yet I also want them to actually do something too.

Maybe I should make the Ogre Labourers be available on settlement tier 2 instead of 3?

I ironically am trying to avoid suggesting that, as I think the idea that outside of large they are weak ogres DOES makes sense, but with their size and anims, it may be necessary. Especially since their charge is neutered.

I just don’t want them to be too busted, as Chorfs getting actual ogre and moshpit armies for no investment is patently dangerous, to say nothing of getting actual chorf with ogre stacks.

Maybe instead of upping the MA, maybe WS?

Hmm, odd, I swore that bulls had a better MA than that. Shows the power of campaign buffs, I guess. But then, these are GW ogres with a much different anim set.

TBH, not sure yet.

Got any suggestions?
I doubt the attack can exceed Ogre Bulls, no?

Okay, here's one... they may need better melee attack. I am realizing they are not producing much damage HP wise to the warriors. Given they are primarily AP, they should be better than tho, so I think they just aren't landing enough hits. They may be slaves, but they are a half-giants with a half-giant weapon. It's okay for them to connect.

Also, this helped me confirm that ogres can glide even through orcs, which is useful info for whatever form of ogre laborer I wind up using!

So, using them as meatshield boosting some orc labourers, I went against a goofy lazy point matched dwarf warrior army, and... yeah. Definitely not adding much offense there. Since these guys are meant to be anti-large, that is not a dealbreaker, and they did add enough beef to make it take 6-7 minutes in battle before the line cracked, with Contempt boosting ofc. In an army with the appropriate chorf damage, that might actually be decent, although dawi warriors also aren't exactly gonna crack anything quickly.

I mean you are fighting the delicate balance that is the chaff side of the dawi zharr, where you almost can't let it be too good, since their forged units are so damned good. Although hobs are kind of really good too, so... eh.

I get the sense you have a good idea for how to make this feel unique and useful, so when I get a chance I'll give it a whirl and see how it goes. Just glancing the pic, if you want them to be a meatshield and not a charger, they need better leadership than that, even if that is counter to the idea of being conscripted chattel.

Ofc.
If you are interested, I would love some balance ideas. I feel the unit is on a weird place and could be better, but I would need feedback

Funny thing is the below request is exactly what Deco's Expanded Roster adds. It's as you say, tbh, no reason to make gobbos the minute you get a t2 settlement and can use the gnobbos instead, if that is the required flavor of slave chaff.

Also has an ogre labourer as well, but it is more a blatant bull-but-worse. Will compare the two and see which is cooler. That said, I love that you managed to get the gutplate off, seems unlikely chorfs would allow them to keep those on.

@NintenDoingIt
I think why I wouldn't do that is that the unit would be too similar to Goblin Labourers, minus the ranged portion.

@marauderB
Interesting. The problem with that is, then the initial use of the unit is lost. The anti large portion. Physical shield thematically doesn't fit for anti large.

Have you throught about adding Gnoblar Labourers as well? Having them throw thrash/stones at the enemies, just a ranged labour option.

Thanks for another great mod!

Here's a quick idea to make it more of a "meat shield": replace the hammers with physical shield, and maybe up the charge bonus.

A bit more durable, does damage with initial charge, then can't fight well but can hold the line, maybe charge again. Either as a replacement or a different unit.

Thanks again for your excellent work!

@Guvenoren
There was a mod like this for WH2 IIRC.

Well, chaos dwarfs also doesn't have an early Anti large option.

Oh wow fantastic idea! I always felt there was a hole in the labour roster, just a little spice to keep your armies propped up in the early-mid game

@Gleen Cross
R1kko knows his shit. he is amazing