Reinstated vanilla background income to further accommodate starting armies upkeep while using Population Mechanic

As such, lowered main building income to base 150: 150-300-600-1,200-2,400

Hey man, the upkeep doesn't appear on my end with Count Noctilus, have you checked in a new campaign? is it the same even without the mod? if so then perhaps clear the Data folder and validate the game files.

I recommend KMM anyhow as it makes modded games run smoother, besides the mod organizing capability.

Yes, i meant to write here as well a little thing :)
The buildings in the shipbuilding all still say they will take upkeep, but in reality they do not.
I tried unsub/resub, i tried using KMM, nothing. It is only a graphical bug, and maybe i'm doing something wrong myself as it seems something cache related :)

Ahh ok but I removed the PO penalty for taxes, and they don't get income only if they don't have any other provinces with income.

What do you mean the AI doesn't play with population, they're restricted by its mechanics throughout the game.

No cheating is recommended, it might also help with that weird autoresolve result you stated in Deadly Attack Dynamics comment.

Hello, nice to hear about the vampire coast!
By sending armies to raid a region and bringing it close to revolt, then you will see ai turn off taxes, generally for 1 turn. If you mouse over the public order icon, to see the breakdown, you will see when taxes are on or off.
in vanilla you would need a lot of armies though, so it basically never happens unless you really really go for it (bretonnia is the easiest faction to use for this).
In your mod is easier to tell because when they turn off taxes they have no income, and suffer desertion instantly :)

Never tried the no cheating mod.
Population mechanic is very good, i love it too! Very creative and well done mod. Still, the ai is not able to play with it except in the very first turns.
Also, thanks for making your mods! I dont like game3 at all, so i end up here all the time, but vanilla has no surprises left :D

Hello man can't thank you enough for this detailed feedback. from last to least:
- I had no idea Vampire coast even had the horde mechanic as i never played them, so thanks a lot and all of their ship maintenance is removed.

- Removed all of Norsca and Wood elves outpost maintenance as well. didn't remove the maintenance from upkeep reduction as it's part of the 'game' and would require removing that to everyone.

- Your point on the balance between the main settlement income and other buildings is valid and true, I enhanced main building income as well as farms.

I didn't specifically state it but Population and No Cheating are very good balancers for this mod, as such I put them as required as they are highly recommended to play with.

How could you tell if the AI taxes or not? left it be for now, maybe ill consider making it -1/-2 just for the mechanic.

Oh last but not least, the changes to VCoast need to be reverted. It is unacceptable that everything in the shipbuilding costs upkeep. 1k each. Even the main building costs 720.
Going for the bare minimum of recruitment options (gunnery mob, artillery, beast building) plus infrastructure and landmark, this amounts to 9120 each turn just for existing.
Even funnier, the upkeep reduction building (-15%) costs 1k upkeep, thus becoming a financial trap.

So, let me rephrase: your legendary lord without troops costs almost 10k upkeep, and that is the race's core identity.
Btw this explains why i never saw a vampirate except the very early game :D

Also, Norsca is barely playable in vanilla (being very generous here), and this mod, all things considered, empowers mainly your enemy :) Here too we have the upkeep reduction building costing upkeep, which needs to go. Honestly i think some struggling factions could go without building upkeep at all.

Some funny bits: Mannfred 3/3 won the empire effortlessly and fast but Vcounts are weaker in the mod, so idk :)
Kislev has 9 starting settlements and just beats all non empire factions (until Manny).
Landing on Ulthuan proved to be a very challenging manoveur with 10+ patrolling stacks plus 6 stationed on the classic ports like Tiranoc and Tor Anlec :)) Very funny and involved a lot of conscious placement of armies to provoke a weak spot, over a lot of turns!

It seems that tier5 capitals produce less income than minor settlements. As upkeep from tier5 military is frankly incredible, what i see is ai factions get super strong early and fast, try to snowball (big cheats on growth, cost reduction etc) and get stuck with extremely high unavoidable upkeep (ai doesnt demolish or disband heroes) getting worse the higher the tier.
I was looking at athel loren with only 1 army on each tree and kemmler with his starting army plus 3 heroes suffering desertion in his tier 5 capital.

Great fun mod. Ai really enjoys the extra income and building slots, and fields a ton of armies very quickly. Playing on legenday, I'd say you can expect to see overall about twice as many stacks. Which makes the early game extremely intense in a positive way.

After playing through 3 campaigns, I think:

The ai is certainly able to turn off taxation. With this mod i still saw it, but to no effect (and it caused desertion). Also it removes one little choice the player has, as turning off taxes to manage PO removes 1 precious recruit slot. Maybe make it a optional?

Dark Elves...impressive. With no heroes at all, Quintex over 100k, followed closely by Albion and Lothern not full province. So, 300k income with 10 settlements (albeit rich ones) and no cheese. I classify this as "out of control". The ai doesnt do it, so i guess it's not really breaking campaign balance but still...

Ah alright, seems unrelated and never had this sort of crash. I recommend KMM for better performance and compatibility management anyway.

The crashes I had were on startup itself (after the sega intro) with enabled OvN Lost Faction, Amazons and Mixu's Unlocker mods. Everything seemed to work just fine with eachother except for Mixu's and DE in that exact order.

And by 'before' I meant above in mod manager in official launcher (f.e. 1. smth; 2. DE; 3. Mixu; 4. OvN etc)

Also poor boy Nakai keeps wandering alone. But also that was on lower difficulty and first 5 turns, so not sure if that's the reason

Thank you, what exact crashes did you experience? was it at AI turn, upon end turn saving? did re-ordering passed the turn?

That's weird since the two mods edit different tables:
This mod edits campaign_building_chain_slot_unlocks_tables while Mixu's edits slot_template_to_building_superchain_junctions_tables.

Are you referring to 'before' in KMM?

For anyone experiencing crashes with Mixu's Unlocker , check if Dynamic Economy loads before unlocker (at least it worked in my case).

I hate to be the one to ask, my guy, but might you be making this for 3?

Hello, the mod is intended for vanilla and is only compatible with building adding mods listed here , and shouldn't be played with any other buildings adding mods (excluding growth buildings) and likely big overhauls.

i'v looked into SFO and as you said it modifies vanilla buildings and thus requires a submod which is quite the task given the making process of this mod, but it also changes many other things like the base income, construction costs, tax rates, public order and raiding, so I don't think it's a good idea to overhaul an overhaul, balance wise.

Hence, most likely I won't make an SFO submod, as it will probably require a different version altogether to maintain balance.

If you want the non-building related features you can just delete all the 'building' tables via RPFM.

Hadn't noticed this earlier but it looks like this mod is kind of incompatible with SFO for certain races (and possibly any other mods that modify the default building chains). E.g. in SFO the dwarves are missing the modded tier 5 artillery building which removes access to flame cannons and gyrobombers completely as well as other modded units that come from that.

Any chance you possibly make an SFO compatibility submod to fix this?

goated dev and mod

@Boboiscool1 updated with Sigmar's Heirs, an Empire Overhaul
compatibility.

this mod good good ! hope other total war series have same mod

Can we get sigmars heirs compatibility? The custom buildings make noticeably less income.

Thanks man, I ran some tests:

1. All the Greenskin tribes had armies, the only thing I noticed was that Wurrzag took some time since his settlements have a bit less income than other Greenskin's settlements and he gets raided a lot

2. The AI seems to invest more on buildings rather than recruiting, which is logical, so sometimes they're just on a construction spree

3. The AI won't fix their buildings quickly

To address these, i'v:

1. Enhanced settlement income by another 250

2. Removed the non-auto repair so buildings do repair but at slower pace

3. Enhanced damaged settlements income to 50% rather than 0% like other buildings, so there isn't a gridlock scenario where damaged buildings can't be repaired due to lack of income generated by those buildings

This fixes early Wurrzag and prevents gridlocks, please update me if it worked for you.

Note that the point is also to allow for enhanced economical crippling of opponents, so factions collapsing with no armies is possible.

Telling about don't creating an armies, sorry for no answer from me. I was playing with mods, with and without yours, I am sure that is because your mod. For example, Greenskin Tribe, east from Tilea, just don't creat any army.

Thank you, haven't tested nor do I know SFO so I can't relate to that, but besides making economy more interactive and real/based, the idea was to boost economy so each city can sustain a small army.

The factions that generate income from battles/raiding/sacking also benefit since there are more armies to potentially ransom and buildings that determine the raiding/sacking value. Ill look into standardizing settlement income.

The public order was intentional for less rebellions, I can suggest Population Mechanic for enhanced management and Bring Ruin! for more corruption spread.

Skaven was excluded (along hordes) as their economy is different with everything generating income, but maybe ill enhance just their settlements. The undercity value is "wh2_main_foreign_slot_discovery_skv_1" in "building_effects_junction_tables" table.

Just giving my experience using this mod with SFO - it makes the early game marginally more difficult for some factions due to the lost background income but for factions that make most of their money from settlements this mod makes them WAY richer like 3x to 4x more money than before so at least for SFO, factions like Empire HE Dwarves DE are omega OP past early-mid game since you make so much money especially since supply lines are gone.

It also makes public order much easier to deal with across the board pretty much.

I do wish this mod could be used to override the gutted SFO skaven economy where every non-undercity building only made 50 gold and made them extremely unfun. Is there some way to edit the files to do this?

Haven't encountered this behavior, even while they're at war? which ones? are you sure they just don't have enough money/buildings to recruit them? do you have mods that alter AI recruitment/economy behavior?

It can be changed under "faction_gdp_other/minor" in campaign_variables_tables, but the whole mod emerged from that change.

This is a good mod. But one ussie. Some fanctions just don't creating an armies without background income. Can you tell me how to change background income in the Pack File Manager?