Early game armies end up much smaller in size unless you spam warriors. Luckily AI is always eager to buy more luxuries.

Whassup GAMERS

even worse yet: I loaded an earlier autosave before the bankruptcy hit me. I was never in the negatives per turn.
positive gold per turn, but my treasure kept shrinking. as far as I can tell there is no actual treasure inflation, right?
is the maintenance perhaps higher than the game tells me?

something about this mod breaks my game. I started building an army in the Industrial to fight my first war. I understand that thats expensive, but I hit bankruptcy for two turns, lost units to disbanding, optimised my economy to gold and am in the positives per turn again, but bankruptcy just doesnt end and my treasury stays at 0.
it should fill. per turn is increasing every turn, but the flat number in my treasury stays at 0 and bankruptcy continues. my empire is utterly f uc ked.

Right, you need to start a new game for it to work.

So... no idea what happened XD

I was making +653 in my game and remembered this mod (I saw it the other day) and was like "hey, maybe I should give it a try..."
So I installed it, loaded the game... and now I'm making +730? XD
I guess it might only work when starting a new game?

This is definitely more of an "I hate warmonger civs and don't want them to be able to participate" mod more than anything else. I absolutely agree gold is too easy to come by starting in the middle section of the game (around Renaissance era on Online speed), but even in Ancient era it makes it impossible to have an actual army. Civs like Monty and Alex need to be fighting early, but your changes to districts mean that you can either have units or you can have tech and not both.

It would make a lot more sense to heavily backload the changes, leaving Ancient, Classic, and Medieval eras unaffected while making it more important to have a good financial base... right about the same time the game has gone on long enough that you can actually afford to focus on increasing your income.

I know it doesn't affect certain civs more than others but some civs have less ability to produce gold before unlocking commercial hubs

Maybe instead of +1 maintenance to all units with at least 1 base maintenance until industrial era you could make it start at medieval era? Just to give people a chance to start building commercial hubs and harbors. It seems the Maya are bankrupt because they have lots of archers to defend against early Macedonian aggression

Incorrect. This mod does not affect specific civs more than others, and I've never seen any civ go bankrupt while using it.

It seems Arabia, Ottomans, and Maya are easily bankrupted.
It is turn 119 and they have 6, 7, and 6 cities respectively.

I was just suggesting this for those experiencing weak AI's, so we can elaborate. I haven't played this mod, yet, but it seems to be a great idea!

hmm might be one of my other mods then I will update

I don't find that this cripples the AI at all.

Maybe we should further analyze which leaders/difficulty combination goes bankrupt easily to come up with a helpful fix idea?

Good idea but this mod cripples the ai who isnt able to deal with this unless they are one of the gold-focused civs

This mod doesn't seem to affect level 3 holy site buildings? Cathedrals, mosques, etc.

Would you be willing to update that or is that intentional? If you do happen to update that, can you also include District Expansion: Worship to that? It adds new buildings such as jinja, tzacualli, etc

Thanks for the mod

@p0kiehl
We will be playing with your mod at PYDT.
Only humans.
My game is called
Economy Whoas. Economic Woes.

It makes a big difference! Great work!

What a difference this mod makes!

I went from rolling in gold to actually having to manage my policies in order to stay out of the negative.

The AI seems to handle the changes well enough, as well.

Thank you for your work!

Great work for me, mod work.

You guys see how impossible it is to take feedback? Someone posts it’s too easy, someone posts the AI is going bankrupt, etc.

All I can reliably do is base it off my own experience, and I think the current iteration is the best sweet spot between not crippling the AI (I’ve never seen an AI go bankrupt with this mod) and mounting a challenge to the player.

It is true that some AI's (mainly the most militaristic ones) often go bankrupt with this mod. Experienced this issue twice with Macedonia and once with Spain, in different games with different setups.

Funny enough they seem to catch up in some moment after Industrial, probably because even if the maintenance cost goes up, so do gold sources.

I love this mod, but i still feel that there's too much gold in the game and too many ways to get gold bónus. Can you consider setting maintenance costs even higher for units and top layer buildings?

@umopus @gdi_alliance
Both are great ideas .... ;)

Does this effect AI Civs as well or just the player?.. Because if it is just the player then I would use this as MID to late game I tend to run over the AI civs.

Agreed, I'm still swimming in gold by midgame. I don't know if this is possible, but perhaps an inflation mechanic? Every building or unit becomes more expensive with every subsequent era?

@p0kiehl We need things to be even more expensive ;) ... still too much Gold to spend.

OK, i will end this game before i test things.
I dunno what else could cause this, i have other mods but none managing or improving gold.

You can't - the saved game won't load.

what happens if i remove this mod from a saved game to test if it changes anything ?
Otherwise I will test next game without it.

I haven't experienced that issue whatsoever. In fact the AI is usually doing better than me at Gold management.

Hello, I'm afraid your mod is harsher on the AI than me.
I'm at +32 gold per turn and when checking the 4 others empires, they are at best at +0, and ceasar from roma is at -9 gold per turn :'(.

If this mod is the problem, is there any way to activate it only for players and not AI ?

Team player for the community! Yeah p0k!

I reached out to the creator of City Lights and he's going to adjust the load order of his mod. That'll resolve the issue!

OK, then they cost 5 maintenance. That's different from the UI being incorrect.

I haven't looked at that mod or checked the load order, but what's probably happening is this: my mod changes maintenance primarily based on the existing maintenance cost. So if a building has 3 maintenance (tier 3 buildings), my mod changes it to 5.

Since it loads after City Lights, it's increasing based on the City Lights new costs.

My mod has high load order to catch all added content, so I can't really change that.

I don't really see the problem either way - if you're using this mod you want higher maintenance costs, so it's giving you that.

This is not what I've experienced. Without any mods other than yours and City Lights, Libraries cost 5 gpt to maintain according to civilopedia.

No it doesn't. Maintenance costs are automatically detected by the UI and displayed. There's no incorrect displaying.

City Lights adjusts maintenance costs for Districts and Buildings itself, so some of the changes in this mod are overwritten. For instance, while I don't touch Tier 1 buildings, City Lights makes Libraries, Shrines, etc. cost 3 maintenance.

In short, the values you're seeing are from City Lights.

The mod shows incorrect Maintenance costs (e.g. for the Library) in combination with City Lights mod.

After reflecting on this mod more, I think Gold was still a problem in the mid to late game. So I've made further changes. The mod description has the details.

Let me know if anyone thinks this is too harsh while playing, and whether you're playing with Civilizations Expanded or not. It felt good to me with Civilizations Expanded, but based on feedback, I may update the mod to be less drastic when not using Civilizations Expanded.

@BishopKayne - I'm going to update the mod soon to increase costs a little bit more for later era units and some other minor changes.

@Amondin I did not do it "manually" - the mod doesn't need to be updated to work with the NFP and automatically applied the cost to the Diplomatic Quarter.

@weraptor And the Government Plaza still only has +1 maintenance with this mod, so I don't know what you're talking about.

However, +3 maintenance for the Government Plaza and the Diplomatic Quarter may actually a good idea...

@weraptor I assume because everything was done manually and it hasn't been updated since May 1st.

why does the government plaza have a maintenance cost of 3 gold and diplomatic quarter only 1?

Thanks pOkiehl for this one. Been a staple mod for me for awhile. Gathering Storm really makes currency accumulation much to easy. Is there a hard-core version of this mod that increases atomic era and beyond unit maintenance costs even more?

Clavisra,
I really like some of your ideas there. Especially changing specialists into actual expenses to use or even maintain. Really useful specialists but they cost gold per-turn to maintain or purchase. Sounds like a great money sink. :) Far too many ways to make money and it just snowballs out of hand mid-late game.

Your ideas aren't possible. Also, If you want to abuse AI exploits to get more gold, I'm not sure why you'd even be using this mod in the first place.

It's easy throughout the late early to middle part of the game to trade with the AI for all of it's gold income. They acquire things of essentially no value like open borders, luxuries, excess strategics, and diplomatic favor, while you earn their hundreds of gold, both leaping you ahead of them, while stifling them at the same time. This mod seems likely to make that tactic even easier and more effective.

What I think would help gold is not making it fungible with production, so you can't instant buy in production queue, no unit upgrades either. But instead maintaining units and infrastructure requires substantial gold. Also, district specialists could be reworked to be hired purely for gold, not required a population working the tile, and be more powerful. Gold to bribe city-states and end/forestall war, too.

This mod makes difference only in early game but then the gold penalty is too small like unit for 8 gold is now only 9 gold

I like this mod a lot. I could always make a lot of gold per turn early on. Early game and some mid game, I have to be careful with my gold a little, which is a good thing with this mod. I still can later in game make a lot of gold per turn, but does not seem way out there like before. This mod is a good balance, does make sense to have some of those things cost maintenance. Now I don't swim in gold like before, lol.

@Amondin Because the most expensive unit is 8 maintenance cost, × 2 = 16, so cool！Because 8 + 1 = 9 doesn't make sense，lack of era promotion