Yes.

Is this also compatible with 1.3.1 ?

I also use this submod for Ultra unit size, even with this mods limits to number of ranks you can still spread the units out quite wide; I wouldnt want to be able to spread them out even further. Phalanx units can still easily more than reach the entire width of city streets without problems for example. Thank you for providing this!

Thanks Kam! For taking your time and helping me understand things

Troops were not spread out that thin unless backed by other troops behind them like principes and triarii being right behind hastati. For example 2 men thick line of infantry would be punched right through by any cavalry charge with no problem.

Technical reason is that this change makes battles much better. AI is unable to adjust ranks so players were abusing it as in this game units spread thin only have benefits from it while in real battles this made them much weaker to the point of not even being atempted unless situation was really dire. There are also issues with how units are targetting one another. Less ranks makes it more accurate, less abusive and work better.

Correct size for DeI is ultra, at least all values in mod are based around it.

Another short question, if I may ask. Why is this submod here for people play below ultra unit size? What would the most "correct" (historic and technical) unit size to play DeI in general?

Hey Kam and DeI team, thanks for this submod and not only because this is a great place for me to ask following question ;)
Just as razorexpert1 stated and what Daroth requested, the historic deployment of an early roman army is lacluster without the possibilty to deploy the hastati very thin in the frontline. In an earlier version of DeI and hence you "simply" made a mod file for Daroth with even less ranks, so it seems very well possible. I suspect there is a general techincal reason for the current official DeI implementation of not having thin ranks. But what is the reason behind this and furthermore why is there non official submod to revert to the old DeI rank thickness? I'm asking because I really want the old style back but at the same time don't know if it is even wise to want that, if that makes any sense :)

Hey Kam@ Apologies but I have one more related question. So we established that Attila has no way to determine unit max drag width and min ranks etc. But I was wondering if you are aware of a min ranks (similar to Rome) for Warhammer 2, Thrones of Britannia etc.
For WH2 and ToB I use the "unit max drag width" to determine how much you can drag the unit but that is a relative value. In Rome 2 you also had a minimum rank under "unit category" next to the RGB values. This was helpful as once the unit was reduced to dust you could still maintain a min rank depth. Is such a thing available in the new games and if so would appreciate if you can point me or if there is any workaround to add it from rome packs or something.

thanks again!

Kam@ thanks man - that makes sense then.. such a pity should be an easy thing for CA to add but nope..

Hey, I am not sure that is doable. This is table that CA added in either patch 19 or patch 20 so long after last patch/update for Attila.

Hey Kam! Hope all is well man! Quick question please (as I have been modding a lot recently across most Total War titles). In the Attila data packs - I cannot find how to force a minimum rank for the units like you have for Rome 2. I have managed to do this in Warhammer 2 and Thrones of Brittania by fiddling with Rank Wirdth (Land Units table) and max unit drag width (KV rules table) but max unit drag width command is missing and so does the "unit category tables" in attila..

thanks

Got it, I will send you file in the evening.

@kam2150 Awsome! i just sent you a friend request

I will make one for free, just add me on steam.

Can you make a version that allows lines of 1-2 units in thickness like it was in shogun2? ill pay you

https://www.romanarmytalk.com/rat/thread-1278.html Discussion on the topic of rank here using Strategikon and Goldsworthy books, though these are more in reference to later roman armies as they're viewing the century as 80 (fighting) men instead of 60.

"The Strategikon recoomends 8 ranks deep to resist cavalry and 4 ranks deep when attacking. IIRC it is somewhat unclear on what the 16 rank formation is used for but this may be the formation that allows suitable gaps for the cavalry to move between and it is thinned later (I seem to recall a statement that expanding a formation is easier than narrowing it)."

"IIRC it is somewhat unclear on what the 16 rank formation is used for

I seem to recall such deep formations were recommended when the enemy outnumbered your forces, in which case envelopement theathened.

For the same reason the Strategikon recommended that not only the front but also the back ranks wore (heavier) armour than the rest of the formation."

Based on some research I've been doing into the Manipular Legion the hastati and principes would have their centuries 20 files and 3 ranks. So the first two lines of melee would be 400 men long spagehtti lines

The Triarii would be 10 files and 6 ranks making the third line 100 men long and the supporting cav would be 5 turma on each side of the formation organized in a pentagon like shape (block of 4 with the leader in the top middle). Each turma would be 10 files and 3 ranks leading to a total of 300 Equites for the battle.

In vanilla the minimum rank is 4 so I'm happy to see this sub mod bringing it closer to what I'm used to but also sad that it's technically one more rank than vanilla and two more than irl rome.

I absolutely detest spaghetti lines in all other total wars but the autistic need for muh historical accuracy is too strong lol

Great mods, thanks.

I wasent aware, thats a a shame. Maybe not useless but at least not very usefull. In Medieval 2 for example you could use sheildwall to boost defences and cohesion while still maintaining an effective and wide formation, in Rome II units in diciplined formations gets to narrow causing enemy units to be able to surround them more easily wether formed together in line with other units or individually.

But thanks for answering

Although I would not call Disciplined Formation useless since it is considered quite OP by players.

Disciplined Formation is hardcoded by CA and nobody can change it.

Hey, it seems this submod dosent seem to change the minimum ranks of disciplined formations, making them quite useless with or without this submod imo.

Is there a separate table apart from unit_category_table where min_battle_rows (or equivilant) can be altered to change unit ranks for different formations types such as disciplined formations?

"Plus phalanx bugs out even more with stretched units" Strange, it felt like the exact opposite to me, what with phalanx units not turning 90 degrees and walking into my own line not nearly as often as they do when I keep my units at the default rank depth, but maybe I'm mistaken and it was just my impression. Thanks for clarifying.

AI is unable to stretch units so when player does that, it makes battles easier vs AI, especially that there are no melee penalties for having few ranks vs deep ranks (Outside of being charged by cav). Plus phalanx bugs out even more with stretched units (it always targets center of the unit). Restricted ranks are also good thing for MP for reasons as above.

Question: I play strictly on Large unit size but what is the practical use for this? Does the AI interact with you better if you can stretch your units out a bit more or is it just a matter of preference? I ask this because the AI has the tendency to cause all sorts of weird behaviours when fighting in hoplite/pike phalanx (like fighting sideways and/or walking through my own units) but it feels like it happens less often when I stretch my units out to use the minimum amount of ranks.
Also, what effect would this have if I play on ultra? None?

very cool

Noice!

thanks

Awesome! Thanks

Thanks, Kam!