@danielthelaw It wouldn't hurt if you've left a link to that new mod of yours, you know. SInce your profile is closed.

https://psteamcommunity.yuanyoumao.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=2204474173

Hello guys,
as this mod is discontinued, I have created a similar mod Realistic Species Growth.
It is changing the exact same defines but I took a different approach here.

@Athinks
Hi, could you answer a question for me?
What is the difference between NEW_POP_SPECIES_RANDOMNESS and NEW_POP_SPECIES_DIV?

please update I am Dying the same reason @baronjutter does

does this mod stil works?

@baronjutter
Afraid I'm not currently updating this mod because I'm away from Stellaris. But feel free to take it and play with the weights yourself.

I've been away from Stellaris for many months and just sought out this mod because my empire with about 200 humans pops got a couple refugees from an incompatible climate type and guess what the only species growing on all my planets is now??

Could this mod be updated to 2.3 please?

Since no one's asked, whats the May 7 update about?
What are the playtests with this mod showing?

Any word on an update?

Hoping to see an updated version of this mod too :)

I'll have a gander. Will have to play a few games first to see how it goes without alterations.

They finally released the final version in 2.2.6. Are you gonna update?

@Spreadwheat
Yes. They've already indicated they are going to make further changes, and while the actual code is child's play, testing takes forever.

Are you waiting for PDX release the last of 2.2+ patches to update your mod?

@Hexagoros
Yeah, I'm tending to agree with you on the numbers behind the scenes. I've tried tweaking habitability a lot, but it didn't seem to do much and a lot of bugs seem to be with habitability traits. They have added in some new lines in 2.2.5 which were previously hidden to do with habitability, but I've not tested. With the tags it is really hard to say precisely what effect editing the numbers will have on pop-choice. The only way is brute-force testing at that can't account for most scenarios. In my first tests where all else was equal, pops with greater numbers tended to outweigh those without (to the point I had to reintroduce the diversity modifier to prevent total snowballing), but those things are never otherwise all equal.

@risker
Is that only the case with this mod? I've stopped doing alterations to it for now while waiting for all the big updates to come in (because of ridic test times). I don't know what could possibly cause that (unless your pops have all the negative traits and the new pops have all the positive ones, but even then it should balance out eventually). BUT if you are using 2.2.5 or above this mod likely won't work properly.

It feels like these two lines do not play any role whatsoever, either in this mod or in vanilla
NEW_POP_SAME_SPECIES_WEIGHT
NEW_POP_EXACT_SPECIES_WEIGHT

I cannot say I have 'ever,' over the course of dozens of hours using this mod, seen an instance where I could say that a species was growing because it had more pops.

From my experience, I think there must be more that we aren't seeing, because I feel like habitability plays a much larger role than the numbers would otherwise suggest. Right now, if a pop has even slightly higher habiptability, it will dominate - regardless of traits or numbers. At least in my experience.

Something i've noticed while playing with this is that the moment i get another species in my empire every single planet and habitat begins exclusively growing them. Regardless of the habitability or anything. At first i thought that the game was trying to achieve some sort of balance and it would stop at a 50/50 split. But as i've played it hasn't stopped and i seems that my native pops are just tired of breeding.

@Spreadwheat
There is an additional line in the code in 2.2.5 in the middle of the block that this mod changes, so it seems likely that might cause complications. So I really can't say. I'd not recommend using it without either splicing that code into the middle or expecting oddness (of what type I cannot say).

It is safe to use this in 2.2.5, even though you didn't tested in that version yet?

@AJ.G.
That is a possibility. Again. Haven't been able to test with latest updates. Without NEW_POP_SPECIES_DIV, if a species gets slight numerical superiority, they start to totally monopolise new species growth (worse the more of them there are so it snowballs). With the game being tied to weighting and only one pop-growth slot, I'm fairly sure that (depending on the pop ratios) the problem you describe is always gonna occur, especially if you have TONS of one species, and then introduce another which is WILDLY outnumbered (the code doesn't say how the underrep bonus to weighting is actually calculated). Feel free to mess around and test with the numbers and prove me wrong though!

@Greenlink
That may be a good shout. With all the updates and other stuff, I've not had time to update and test (running simulations on pop growth is sooooooo sllloooow), but that sounds likely. Before we couldn't even know what the weight was for being over or under habitability, whereas now we can at least change it (even though how it exactly works is still a little unclear). I upped the habitability to 80% because people complained that low habitability species would always grow anyway, so I'm not very clear on how to tweak it now.

Great Idea, but I think NEW_POP_SPECIES_DIV might be still to high. Assuming habitabilty is good, any new species will still heavily outbreed old ones.

Qustion: I've been trying to figure out why this doesn't seem to work for me and I think I've got it. The weights go heavily toward species with habatability over 80% yes? So if no species is over that level then it will simply grow mostly randomly regardless of habitability. I think thats why i keep getting just as many 30% habitability pops growing as i do 65% habitability

@YeshuaAgapao
Yes?

MOD is very simple . Changing a subset of the NPOP defines

Mod:
NEW_POP_SPECIES_RANDOMNESS = 0.0
NEW_POP_SAME_SPECIES_WEIGHT = 1.0
NEW_POP_EXACT_SPECIES_WEIGHT = 0.8
NEW_POP_SLAVERY_WEIGHT = 0.5
NEW_POP_SPECIES_DIV = 0.1
NEW_POP_HABITABILITY_THRESHOLD = 0.8
NEW_POP_HOMEWORLD_MULT = 2
NEW_POP_ASSEMBLY_TRAIT_MULT = 1
NEW_POP_GROWTH_MOD_MULT = 0.165
NEW_POP_IMMIGRATION_MOD_MULT = .25

Vanilla:
NEW_POP_SPECIES_RANDOMNESS = 0.5
NEW_POP_SAME_SPECIES_WEIGHT = 1.0
NEW_POP_EXACT_SPECIES_WEIGHT = 0.5
NEW_POP_SLAVERY_WEIGHT = 0.5
NEW_POP_SPECIES_DIV = 0.25
NEW_POP_HABITABILITY_THRESHOLD = 0.5
NEW_POP_LOW_HABITABILITY_PENALTY = 2
NEW_POP_HOMEWORLD_MULT = 2
NEW_POP_ASSEMBLY_TRAIT_MULT = 2
NEW_POP_GROWTH_MOD_MULT = 0.66
NEW_POP_IMMIGRATION_MOD_MULT = 1

@Longprao
The mod still has different weighting (much lower weighting on traits related to breeding and migration, higher same species weight, lower species diversity weight). But the new patch also added a new line. This allows tweaking of the penalties for being under habitability threshold. Haven't had a chance to play around with it yet.

New beta fixed the pop growth, is it different with this mod?

tt0022
of course it does

does this mod disable achievements?

I'll have to keep an eye on this mod until after I finish my current game.

@Valikdu
Was it ironman or do you have a save from when it started? I can't see how that outcome would come from the weightings, but to check it would be useful to run a comparison with vanilla (a couple of times, probably, because it could be one of those annoying bugs that sometimes pop and sometimes don't). Pop controls on and off does seem to be an (annoyingly necessary fix) for it at least.

I'd played until there were about 40 subterraneans (originals didn't grow) and then enacted pop controls.

@Omega-Oprah
Glad you like it.

@Valikdu
How far have you played after? Does growth even out at a certain ratio of pops? Or have they come to outnumber originals? I think it'll be the underrepresentation modifier (and/or the lockin thing people have reported which is vanilla problem afaik), which is toned down but can't be removed without making multi-species empires basically impossible.

I just heard about this mod and am very thankful for it. Cheers!

Possibly, I had about 150 pops when I got the 1 pop of subterranenans. No other species, they had a modded preference from Planetary Diversity and no growth traits.

@Valikdu
If you are totally one-species otherwise and have lots and lots of pops it may be the underrepresentation modifier acting up (the code does not reveal precisely how it calculates, but I suspect it gets stronger the fewer of a species there are).

@Valikdu
Hmmmm. That sounds bad. The subterranean pops worked as normal for me when they showed up. How many pops do you have in total? Do you have other species in your civilisation already? What are the traits of each? Where are you in the game? Etc.

I've got the subterranean civilization event, which resulted in 1 pop of a new species. Now ALL my colonies grow ONLY this species.
My original species is only less adapted to a couple of planets by 5-10%.

@yhcle
Glad to hear it, although sucks its still a problem. I would love them to separate the system in two.

@Do'tasarr the Khajiit
100% compatible.

@Cacodemon
If they are ALREADY on a planet then they will continue to grow, but if you mean they are not on a planet and even with migration controls they appear there, I don't know. This mod doesn't touch migration rules though, so I don't think it is from the mod. And yes it should be 100% fine to switch it on and off (I've done it many times). It only changes anything when a new pop is selected to grow.

@Kipsta
It will not stop that particular oddity, no. That is a vanilla thing that also bugs me. I really think ethics and laws should influence migration, but that would be a whole separate mod (if it is even possible).

Seems that this mod doesn't have effect on habitability problems(or maybe that I made mistakes),pops still grow in uninhabitable planets and expand to a crazy number,which waste resource and break the balance of population .I really wish pop growth and pop migration can be divide into two different systems.

Hey guys, is this mod compatible with Glavius's Ultimate AI? or i will have issues with jobs?

I'm having a weird problem where conquered primitives will not respond to migration controls. I both enslaved them and enabled migration controls, yet they keep growing on my other worlds.

You should be able to turn it off mid game no problem. It will take a bit until your current growing pops are done and vanilla growth rates take over again

What I mean is are the effects baked into the game?

Is this mod safe to deactivate in the middle of a game? I want to test something because I suspect this mod might be messing up species migration controls.

Will this mod stop people from migrating into slavery or can you add a version that does? I mean the game should probably just forbid xenophobes form having migration treaties, but here we are: People move from democracies into feudal xeno slavery.

Lovely mod!

@Athinks

I haven't played much vanilla since the new version for probably obvious reasons, but the 'lock in' thing does sound more like a vanilla bug than anything messing with weights should cause.

I'm getting pretty exhausted with testing (and with Stellaris' mid-late game lag, which has made my main game just totally crash now) because it takes so long and problems are so dependent on specific factors. I suspect this is why the system came out in the state it did.