When you've been in the code, has there been any way to reduce the reliability hit you take from accidentally breaking a treaty?

Updated the original one:

https://psteamcommunity.yuanyoumao.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=1168578359

Yeah hoping for an update of this one too, MINOS' version just crashes the game for me.

I also second Iblowurears

seconded

Would it be possible to update this mod? I still think it was the superior diplomacy mod. Minos's version is too restricitve and requires too many parts to make work with other mods safely. This mod also had a much better diplomatic balance.

@SteelReserve

Hey, with this mod Dark Elves had -30 aversion with each other whereas in vanilla they have 0. Can this be changed? Dark Elves and Skaven will fight too much with -30 aversion which helps High Elves/Lizardmen. Don't think it's good for balance.

Also, in vanilla Vampires and Empire have -30 aversion or something like that with each other but in this mod is only -10. Think the -30 aversion should be kept because they are supposed to be such big adversaries with each other.

Does this still work? Is it updated?

Oh, absolutelly. Hellebron and Morathi should be -50 at least. It's such a minor tweak, it's not even worthy to make a mod just for that, lol hope anybody who is making diplomacy mods can take a look at this. Even if the balance kinda gets broken because of a possible DEF civil war... but they are edgy, civil war fits. To counterbalance, just give more negative traits among HEFs

@Gleen Cross - ask Minos over on his better diplomacy page. I believe he's also retooling Loreful Diplomacy (which what you request should be in). I totally agree with u btw. =)

Just tell me you tweaked hellebron and morathi, please, lol they don't hate each other, it's just a -10 in most diplomacy mods and also vanilla (if i'm not mistaken). if nobody will gonna do that, then I have to release it myself, lol

Xmas in June! Thanks Minos!!!!

Updated the Original Mod :
https://psteamcommunity.yuanyoumao.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=1168578359

For the Work with Better AI 2:
https://psteamcommunity.yuanyoumao.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=1168578106

Sorry to cause more work for you, man :D

ムーンウォーク【moonwalk】 - this mod should fix those issues for you. =)

Wintermist - I'll get it done today. Spend forever staring at this issue in PFM till I came up with a solution.

Mc.turdle - Lorefull Diplomacy needs an update from Crynsos I believe.

Is lorefull diplomacy working for you after the new update? Thanks for this great mod!

Thanks man, looking forward to it :) It was literally every few turns that they confdederated a new one, it was impossible to compete with lol

Does this make it easier for Lizardman factions to interact normally with other Lizardman factions, instead of being given a full list of red options even at high strength+high relationship?

Most concerned with confederation since it feels very anti-lore to be constantly required to war with my own kind as lizards, but even just seeing them get more reasonable about trade/alliance would be nice.

Will tone it down again when I get the chance later tonight.

Having played a bunch of Norsca now I noticed that the Empire confederate so damn fast that it's impossible to wage war on them, they just become too big and swarm you with multiple stacks of armies while you can hardly afford one :) Is it possible to tone down them too? By turn 40 they had basically the whole Empire already.

@Wintermist - glad you like it! I also can't play without it which is why I'm still maintaining Minos's mod =P

@All - reduced "Request to Join this War" Spam from AI.

Thanks to this mod (and the other diplo mod) I can enjoy the game again. I was so sick and tired of the crazy unpredictability of the factions. Thank you so much for putting effort into this!

Ready to rock for Norsca! Slightly changed confederation bonuses, let me know what yah think!

@MrWhite - will tone it down with the Norsca udpate.

@Av-BriaN- - will look into it more with the next update. No time till they drop the dlc.

Could you slow down the confederation rate? I mean I did around 10 autoruns to test it ( with Loreful Dipl an AI2) and usually at around turn 50-70 most of the factions are gone, with 6-7 huge factions remaining. It's great and all but I think it should be 100 turns later. With such conf rate as it is now other mod functions are useless because you basically have 3-4 factions you can interact, and usually fights are goodies vs poor evil

If you like the mod in current state maybe you can adress the values so I could change them myself

@SteelReserve Hey, were you able to fix it yet? XD

Hoping to use this mod for my campaign.

Thank you, it looks like all Skaven have aversion with Dark Elves.

@AV-BriaN- - good catch, will fix it here shortly.

@SteelReserve I notice ingame that with this mod that Clan Rictus starts with negative relations towards Naggarond. Won't that increase the chance those two factions declare war on each other?

Nice, thank you, I like what I see so far from it!

@AV-BriaN- alliances and, to a much lesser extent, confederations will happen much more quickly with this than in vanilla. This is balanced by the fact that alliances are more likely to fracture if members act in their own interests rather than the alliances (both for the AI and Player). If you look back in the comments a page or 2 I describe this in action pretty well. It also has to seriously benefit the faction for it to want to confederate. The confederations on turn 1 happen but it should be pretty rare (with you naming the 2 factions most likely to do it). The reality is it's only sped up like 4-8 turns from what vanilla is anyways.

Nice, thank you SteelReserve. I like the idea of Dark Elves/Skaven allying because they need to if they're going to survive vs High Elves/Lizardmen! :D

I did see though the Empire and Wissenburg confederate on turn 1... lol but from what I've seen, minor factions seem to last longer with this mod. They'll make a lot of allies but won't confederate right away.

@AV-BriaN- - There will be more and more varied alliances (within the realm of Lore) which will come into conflict, both internal and external. Alliances among Dark Elf's and Skaven will happen more, but they will also backstab each other more frequently as well.

Of course, all of this will vary game to game. At the start of a new game Diplomatic Traits are dolled out randomly (from lists for each race) that determine AI diplomatic behavior. In vanilla this are usually benign at best and pointless at worst. With this mod the traits are much more important and impact the AI much more significantly. This means each game will be diplomatically different (within reason and lore).

For ultimate awesome with this mod I highly suggest using it with Crynsos' Loreful Diplomacy as it fixes some of the issues with the races and factions commingling in non-loreful ways which works fantastically with this mod. https://psteamcommunity.yuanyoumao.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1308223665&searchtext=

Thank you, could you give me some things to expect? Like Dark Elves ally with each other more, High Elves the same thing, etc? How do the alliances typically turn out?

@AV-BriaN- This works 100% perfectly (and I personally use it with) Advanced AI as well as Choice and Consequence (will work with SFO, Radious, ect). The very start diplomatic relations are not changed for compatibility sake. That said, the traits and responses to diplomatic incidents are so much different that it provides a pleasantly more diverse world than vanilla. It's totally save game compatible so you can try it out and stop using it mid game without issue if you don't like it. Hope you give it a try and enjoy. =)

Would this work with Advanced AI? Anyway to tell ingame if it does or not? Are any of the starting diplomatic relations between the factions changed with this mod?

That makes sense, thanks!

@Arch902 - it seems to depend what diplomatic traits factions get distributed at the start of the game. Sometimes it's easier and sometimes it's harder. Sometimes your neighbors will be more warlike and others not. Minos made all the traits stand out much more.

Thanks for the answer SteelReserve! No worries, that totally makes sense.

For this mod, does it reduce the player's ability to form confederations? As Empire, I'm noticing they are harder to come by than usual. Not sure if that's from this mod.

thank you for the explanation, i'll definitely try that combo out out on my next SFO playthrough!

@Mr. Ethnic Cleansing - ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

@CommissarRotke - the faction likes and dislikes are just heightened vanilla. What Minos and I have done is crafted a system that makes the races behave more like they're written in GA lore. Skaven are backstaby as hell, Dark Elfs incredibly suspicious, Dwarfs stern and unforgiving. The racial characteristics of factions are much more present and at the fore-front now. If you are looking to create a world where, say, Greenskins won't invite Dwarfs to war, or stuff of that nature, try using both this and Crynsos's Loreful Diplomacy.

@Arch902 - I'm very likely not going to even be doing that. I'm currently modding compatibility patches for Choice and Consequences which uses Advanced AI. The odds of me trudging through Better AI 2 is very very low.

any expansion into what it does, like a race relations table or who likes/dislikes whom?

Hey SteelReserve, thanks so much for updating this mod! Really great work! :)

Do you have any plans to update MINOS' excellent Better AI 2 mod? No pressure just curious, because I'm sure updating that would be a lot of work.

@SteelReserve
If the fucker doesn't get paid or care about his mods why should it matter that he "let" you update his mods for him?

Just take his files and rename em. Besides, other people like Slavyk and Sibedee make the exact same mods that he made only they dont abandon their hard work in the rain like spoiled children.

Keep doing his work for him. I'll keep subcribing. Makes no difference to me or the other 182 people

Leaving comments up because 1) MINOS is the friggin man and it's super awesome of him to let me and other update his rad work! 2) He's absolutely right and no one is entitled to mods/mod upkeep, rather, we are super lucky that talented individuals like MINOS take the time to share their creations with the community. It's hard work and incredibly time consuming to make this stuff, and expecting someone to drop their lives to maintain something they're not even playing anymore is way unreasonable.

All that said, let's all just be happy because MINOS is a cool dude and let's people update his work. =)

@ Mr. Ethnic Cleansing :

Im just waiting for the Game with Part 3 to be completed with all DLC (and patched up) before i start playing and modding again.

No one pays me for modding(besides 1 Donation in over 3 Years) - it is my Lifetime and im not in any Way obliged to maintain them, when i lack the Time or am not even playing it anymore (both is the Fact).

Anyone is free to contact me and update my Mods on their own, like SteelReserve did.

i'm so glad you're doing this. It's annoying that Minos made actual good mods and then decided to bitch out and never update becuase he "doesn't like warhammer 2 anymore". great job. keep it up

@Gravy - Everyone may want to be friendly with you (especially as HE with good diplomatic relations) but that doesn't mean your allies are all going to like each other. Be careful building your alliance, I have started more than one world war by inviting too many parties with too many different diplomatic agendas to the table. =)

This is a Chaos vs Order mod, because everyone just gets friendly with each other, as high elves i got alliance requests from everyone except the evil races.