any Idea if this will work with a mod like Ultimate Chaos?

Also, any plans for Warhammer 2 version?

Love the idea of the mod. One question though, doesn't giving all units physical resistance and balancing around that make Magic attacks really OP?

@BierTempelier
Thanks for the rundown, surely appreciated!

As for the "killer-combos", I'm still looking after units like these, trying to figure out how to tackle them. A bit of a tough nut to crack, especially with all the ranged weapons around - nerfing them makes them literally melt to any mildly competent army set-up, while buffing them as I did in the last update makes them... well, you tested it.

As I said, still on the planning table, especially since I still have a version for WH2 to make.

I have done over 30 simulations on the same exact battle (also using the Spectator Mod) and a battle which lasted 6,5 minutes has increased to 31 minutes by combining the following MODs:

(A) Think & Act ; (B) Corpse Maker ; (C) 2/3 Speed ; (D) Increase unit size +150%

These MODs are designed to change different parts of the game and therefore proved to be compatible.

However, the battle outcome was opposite between Vanilla and this 'killer' combo mostly due to overly strong monsters. That is my main and only concern at the moment, that the stat change using Think & Act in various combinations differed from the Vanilla simulations.

ANYHOW - across the wide range of battle-extending MODs, this one is at the very top in the broad comparisons I did. Keep up the good work !

Would it be too much to ask for lords and heroes to have a slightly faster attack speed? having played around with an attack speed mod for lords and heroes, it really makes those duel fights fierce and brutal.

@Mr. RaTmAn

No problem, just wanted to tell you I appreciate your work, Though I'll make my own personal (dumbed down) version that can be used with SFO and unit packs because I cant go without them at this point, though some may.

Also, gave you some suggestion in the feedback thread you made, they aren't very original but well..maybe you can use something :)

@Crunbum
Nope. The changes I made are staying here, and I'm not sacrificing anything just so it can work with something different. Maybe if the author himself would be interested in co-operation, but other than that, I see no point of doing it.

The started as a thing for personal use anyways, I never expected fame or recognition. Sure, the more people the better, but I'm just as okay with a small or even zero following. Things are how they are, and I'm not trying to fight it.

@Mr. RaTmAn
Thanks!
Im actually thinking about giving units global reload penalties from fatigue, even at fresh (large enough to mitigate the dmg increase relative to the melee units). I think that would work fine but then again, you never know.

Just wondering, will you ever consider doing a SFO compatibility patch? Or is that completely out of question? I mean, sadly, "moar units and mechanics" are more appealing to most than "silent, background changes", so I doubt your mod will see much use if its restricted to vanilla.

Best of luck though

@Crunbum
Yeah, it does work, I tried to fiddle with it a few times, but without any proper testing. I guess you could work it in that way, but as you mentioned yourself, missiles are the biggest problem in these kind of mods. There's no real workaround for that in my knowledge, so I'm just trying to count on people to choose this mod over SFO for the battles. Not that I have something against them, just some healthy competition (if you can even say that with such small following) ;)


@yeeyee
As Crunbum said, the mod will work, but won't change any units from other mods. This doesn't neccesarly mean they'll be OP though - this mod actually changes vanilla units by buffing them to work better with the new system, which means mod units are either going to be UP, or not really changed much.

@yeeyee, I can answer that for the mod creator, and the answer is no unfortunately.
There is no way to globally change unit stats as every unit is a series of tables. So he'd have to modify every single unit from the mods everyone plays. Which is not only a shitload of work but the mod would also not work if you had even 1 other unit-adding mod from the ones included in the changes disabled.

@Mr.RaTmAn I really like the idea of the mod.

Have a question though, do you have any idea if melee_hit_chance _normalisation_chance_coefficient (in kv_rules) actually works if it were changed? I mean, I believe, its supposed to affect how much each point of difference between the attacker's MA and the defender's MD affects the actual hit chance. By default being 1%/point.

if it does then you could modify it to something like 0.5 from 1, change the base hit chance to like 25-30% from 40%, lower the minimum from 10% to +/- 6% and in this way avoid having to do changes to units which would make the mod compatible with SFO and other giant mods everyone actually uses.

But then again, that would leave ranged units and artillery massive kill machines compared to the rest of units (though still limited by ammo..). Oh well, off to make my own personal mod XD

Would this mod apply to new units from other mods too? Like Chaos divided for example? because I don't want to start a Chaos campaign only to have them be extremely overpowered because this mod only applies to vanilla units or something like that.

Well, i remeber the highest replenishment i got was 18%. thinking about it i believe i caused a mass routing which made me win immediately as i just ended the battle without chasing everyone down. could give a pointer.

@Markliuz Da Jesterly
Oh, lel. Yeah, that's kinda strange... I'll have to look into the captives system to check out where the problem lies.

Its affected in such a way its less captives after the battle, lulz. like you barely get any replenishment from it even if it was a huge battle!

@Cannon Fodder
Yep, there shouldn't be any problems with compatibility.

@Markliuz Da Jesterly
May be due to the whole system which forces units to stay in the fight longer than vanilla, resulting in more casualities. More casualities - more potential captivites after the battle.

Would this mod work well with mods that add new units?

Weird cause something is certainly affecting the numbers captured after battle.

@Markliuz Da Jesterly
Nope, it's battle-exclusive.

Sounds very promising, will give a try with multiple other mods, im hoping they mix and match together nicely :)

Does this mod make changes to replenishment rates after battle? like convert, cannibalize, eat, raise dead and such.

@Markliuz Da Jesterly
Thanks for feedback! I'll look into these for the next update.

I feel certain cavalry should be looked into, as i feel most cavalry with shield and sword should have some staying power while cavalry with lances and the like could remain the same. also i feel exhausted infantry should be easier to kill, they could still have the armor but overall melee defense should drop alil heavier.

@Mad Orse

Morale and fatigue affects everyone, but everything statistic-related is just for the orginal units.

Aslong as this doesn't make Goblins fight to the last pointy-nosed greenskin like Radious did, I'm up for giving it a try!
I'm guessing this doesn't affect units added by mods though? Or does the tweaked morale mechanics and increased buffs from shields transfer to all units using morale and shields?

Awesome! cause i like using mods dat make Ungrim and his slayers viable anti-large. c:

@Markliuz Da Jesterly
It can, I operated on files linked to weapon statistics. Not a guarantee though - I didin't change anything in terms of weapon strength, only some bonuses vs. melee were applied.

Question will this mod prevent changes to weapon strenght from other mods?

I have to say I love the infantry combat you can actually watch then in combat, none of the Benny Hill BS combat, awsome battle mod

I had some spare time today, so I ran a couple of tests and slightly tweaked how ranged units work. More info in Update Notes.

Could the answer with ranged units lie in line of sight?

Like, maybe keep them as powerful as they are, but make line of sight rules more strict. That would play into your idea of more strategy, as you'd have to maneuver ranged units to the right spot.

Just a thought.

you're on the money with ranged units being too powerful

@saucepansf
Now, hold your horses with unsubscribing spree - I don't want to start some kind of mod war around here!

Poor jokes aside, that's a good question. One that I'm asking myself. To be blunt - I don't really know. I'll do something about Lords and Heroes, but that's further down the line. For the next update I'll probably look into ranged units - they are dealing a bit too much damage compared to current melee units for my taste. But it's kinda tricky to do, since I don't want them to become obsolete with too low damage threshold.

Awesome!

It looks like you had already incorporated both features I was looking for...and your logic about the specific tweaks makes sense to me. So, I'll be unsubbing from those mods in favor of this one.

What other features, if any, were you thinking about adding onto this one?

All files from this mod are used by both Celtik and Lucky mods, so yes, all three are surely overwriting themselves - not really sure how though.

And yep, AI is impossible to change sadly. It's hardcoded stuff.


Again, thanks for speaking your mind.

I also changed Army Losses penalty from 120 (which auto-routs all but the hardest units) to 30, which breaks only units that are already fairly damaged. I don't really like the idea of getting rid of it altogether, as combining it with morale system changes of this mod will make hard for any unit to break at all.
I might make the penalty even smaller, but I haven't really decided yet. If I get more feedback on this, I'll think about it.

@saucepansf
First and foremost, thanks for feedback!

As for the Hit Chances, they actually were changed - from 90% (vanilla) to 75%. I subscribed to Celtik mod a while ago, but I personally feel like 50% is simply too low, and makes many of high-tier units simply obsolete, all because this statistics is not an hit average - its maximum percentage of succesful hit. As a result, even weaker units can easily achive the same Hit Chance as better ones. I surely want to make battles longer, but not at a cost of basic balance.
I did also change the base Hit Chance of all units from 40% to 30%, so there's something I guess.

Been trying this one, it plays good!

Some feedback:

Celtik made a mod that reduces the To Hit Chance to 50% of Vanilla. If I had any modding skill, I'd incorporate that into this to make battles last even longer. Don't know if you're up for that, but maybe think about it...

Secondly, Lucky Spade made a mod that gets rid of Army Losses altogether (keeps units in the fight as long as possible). Again, it'd be cool to see that idea combined with this mod...

I use all three together currently, but I'm not sure what, if any, overwrite the others.

Anyway...looking forward to see what else you can add to this cause it's always nice to see battle tweaks. Wish you could alter the battle AI, but that's impossible I hear...