Thank you for the mod while it was still relevant.

I noticed that aswell. Don't know what's the issue.
It's not a big deal, since the faction itself will take both, so your influence gain/hapiness/attraction will not be affected. Also, the mod itself should become obsolete with the Capek patch.

Weird bug:

When using this mod, I get a second egalitarian ethic. At first I thought it was just a cosmetic duplication, but they are functioning as completely separate ethics with some pops in one and other pops in the other. Since they are labeled the same, this is only visible in the Factions window (there are two Egalitarian ethics with different percentages at the top), and only half of my egalitarian pops seem to be eligible to join factions.

I didn't change the AI files, so I don't think an AI would take the rights (ironic, I guess). It was essentially for human players.

I generally play as Materialistic Egalitarians anyway...so it wouldn't really matter if I used this. I may try it out for the sake of some of the custom opponents I've made. My goal with those is pure variety, with as significant a nod to reasonable capabilities as possible.

Could be interesting in a Xenophobic Egalitarian empire...

gas the Ai

@Erei:
Okay, thanks.

I did a quick test with this mod (I don't play it myself), and unexpectedly, it worked. It just gave the option to the Libertarian ethic. The tooltip doesn't say you can do it with the libertarian ethic (in game, tooltip seems to work on the menu), but I was able to do it.

However, I'm not sure if there are no side effect. So yeah, it's at your own risk, but suprisingly, it seems to work.

Speaking of conflicts: I have a mod that I use called: Ethics, Civics and Traditions Rebuild. Will that cause any conflicts at all?

Got it. No more talk about sentient rights.
Ok, so, how are you going to balance it? As I see, theres still the spiritualist ethos while you are dividing materialist into 3 parts, 2 functional ends of materialistic +rationalism. Also there is already collectivism vs individualist which fully compasses the socialism/capitalism part in everything but a subtle name change, though collectivism is much closer to stalinistic communism than socialism, which in modern days is a catchall terms which can include xenophilic/materialist/egalitarian/and peaceful ethics in different amounts while many are firmly opposed to collectivism in Stellaris terms.
Also I would recommend staying away from real world terminology, if you plan on using the socialism/capitalism axis, you might have a flamewar on your hands by people who feel their system was slighted or just underpowered.

@Juha, I want to revamp spiritualist/materialist, mostly dividing them in 2 ethic each (spiritualist/socialism vs rationalism/capitalism). Ethic name may change, but essentially what we have now is 2 different ethic mixed in one, and it leads to ridiculous stuff. Mostly when it comes to the game knowing what you are (for the purpose of specific message, or the liberated planet personality). And the switch between them is tenous at best (decadent on a spiritualist empire makes you a slave trader, pacifist on a mat one make you a peaceful trader).
Sadly the Paradox game modding is harder to access than with other game, and I'm having lots of trouble.

But that's another debate. If you don't like or don't agree with the mod, then don't use it. I have no issue with that whatsoever. I certainly don't want a political debate about ethic vs sentient rights.

@Erei "The "no soul" explanation is weak, at best."
Finally someone who understands <3

Darrenb209 The most economical thing to do would be to remove the sentience with a forced program patch. The second most economical thing would be to downgrade to less intelligent robots, which while less capable in their duties, would still be much cheaper than paying wages.

Also, in real life there is no reason for everyone who is similar to act the same, but in a game there is. The game system places the values against each other, each with their upsides and downsides, usually with the upside BEING the downside, and other way round.

So, why not give everyone the capability to see robots as sentients and rebalance the Materialistic ethos to be competitive with the others? Its already weakened with egalitarian strengthened.

P.S. :The game picks the crisis based at least partially of your choices. It means, if you choose your values that you have as a human being to represent your empire, it will give you events that make you think about those values and choices. Egalitarian events may not "trigger" as such, but are the problems of building a multicultural society of individuals who represent contrasting viewpoints and values. The game is a bit... balanced against the player that way.
Also it doesnt as much push in problems that the player does not identify with.

Erei, so basically what you are saying, is that the game is badly designed because it doesnt do what you expected it to do, and my explanation is weak because, well, you didnt actually say why but Im guessing you call it weak because you didnt like it.

And then you explain its for gameplay purposes, say its a good explanation, and then make a mod that breaks that balance. Because, I guess, you dont want to play as a materialist.

Lastly, the Federation is materialistic empire first, and egalitarian second. (or fanatic materialist) Your example does not show anything wrong in the game while supporting my explanation.

I know, right? I mean, seriously! I had a civilization of fanatically egalitarian, mildly militarist citizen-soldier felines... they were basically a utopian society, or at least trying quite hard to become one, while also firmly aware that others would either seek to take advantage or threaten them for other reasons. And they were not allowed to stop treating their sentient AIs as slaves, despite repeat warnings and the fact that sentience really ought to have moved the AIs from a "thing" (which they were indifferent about) to a "being" (which, you'd think, they would care about).

So, long story short, completely nonsensical AI rebellion and I stopped playing because it turned into the Spaceport Explosion Simulator (this was before the update that changed that aspect of the game).

But yes, thank you very much for this mod, definite subscribe there! =D

Why is my entire colony of sentient AI telling me taxation is theft?

The Materialist gives the AI rights because it's more economical to give them rights than deal with slave rebellions.

It's the line of thought as to how can they make the most money, which fits.

Egalitarian was always a bit odd, because while some civs would see the AI's as not individuals and as such not worthy of granting rights, there is absolutely no reason why every non materalist egalitarian would also do so.

So in summary, nice mod.

To put in perspective, when I played my egalitarian empire and made the mod for it, I wanted to wait for the AI demands equal right event. It's an event tied to the AI rebellion crisis, the synthetic will send an official delegation and ask to be treated as citizen, as a non revocable right.
Similar to Data in Star Trek TNG, who essentially make a case about the fact that he is sentient, and should be treated as such (it's a whole episode). And the federation ultimately realize he is right, and he become the first android to be given full rights.
The same happened on Star Trek voyager, where the onboard holographic AI became sentient and asked for the same rights (also won).

Sadly the event never triggered, stellaris being what it is, and most likely picked another crisis.

Even with the mod, spiritualist-egalitarian can't use AI rights.

As it is, you can create an utopia, a xenophile egalitarian pacifist society that loves everyone, but somehow will enslave sentient being for the sole reason they are artificial. On the other hand, the greedy mega corp militaristic materialist autoritharian, who will put profit above everything else, put their own people in chains for said profit, will suddenly feel it's wrong to enslave the machine they produce.


The whole spiritualist hates robots is merely a gameplay mechanic. To prevent them to use both robots and psionic. And with utopia, to make a psionic robot civilization. The "no soul" explanation is weak, at best.

Similarly on the other axis, the game allows xenophobic pacifists, and dirty xenos-loving militarists who rejoive about their alien friends before killing them. Same as it allows authoritarianism where native population is property of state, but aliens are lovable, or a society which values the rights of every being, loves meeting new races, and then kills them out of principle or sport.
So in short, it doesnt bother me since I do not believe the AI rights are part of the authoritarian/egalitarian dichotomy, but a question of what defines a person.

An interesting question. The way I see it is that spiritual empires define synthetics as not having soul. Materialistic empires define every being to lack a soul, thefore a thinking machine is equal.
An egalitarian empire defines every living, sentient being to be equal, but does not automatically define whether robots are living, even if they are provenly sentient. A spiritual/egalitarian empire would never raise a smart toaster to the status of a pure, undying soul. As I see it, its all about combinations, not one system for all. Infact, an authoritarian system might be more egalitarian between biologicals and synthetics... as both are similarly property of the State.

Most likely. Achievements are disabled by pretty much anything, and especially when changing game mechanic.

I can guess that this disables achievements, right?

Out of curiosity, did anyone else have the OPPOSITE problem of this mod? I created an empire with stratified rights for the indigenous species, favored arriving species, conquered species, etc.--I could even limit the rights of the starting indigenous species. But once AI are sentient--all rights, no matter what. You can enslave the fungus people whose planets you annexed, or give them full rights, but sentient AI's feelings musn't be hurt!

I assumed it was a bug that had yet to be fixed. I've run into it mulitple times for different ethics models.

Still, this mod seems like a very needed fix. I'm just surprised since I encountered the mechanically opposite problems.

Ok I edited the mod, hopefully it will work. It should create much less compatibility issue. It will only have issues with mods that specifically change the AI rights policy or the egalitarian ethic. And mods that have the same compatibility issue that I had (it will still be there, nothing I can do, that's up to the mod author).

Hopefully your HiveMind mod will work now, if the author made his mod conflict free as I just did. If he did not, I suggest to contact him.

It turns this mod conflicts with Gumus's HiveMindPlus mod, which allows hive minds to have an extra non-fanatic ethos (and also removes most of the weird arbitrary hive mind limitations). I was a bit surprised by that, but I guess since they both deal with ethics...

Paradox itself should have made this.

Agree with, just now Materialist needs something else.. like +10% research in a science field of their coice (+20% fanatic).

ugh i love this mod but i'd love it if someone woukd make BSG ship cause this would be perfect for the cylons

Not my picture, sadly (couldn't find the author for credit). But I thought it would be fitting :)

I may not playing as Egalitarian but I love the Battlestar Galactica picture you added,sir

I made the mod for myself initially, but thought some people might also enjoy it. I do replace the 00_ethics.
However, I don't think (keyword) that the modded ethic for my mod is actually important, since it's apparently only used by the game to show on the tooltip that egalitarian can use AI rights. The real deal is the policies file.

I don't have E&G, so that's mostly conjecture. Which is why I say it may conflict.

This looks great, I'll have to see if it works with ethics & governments rebuild since that one is pretty much a required mod :P

E&G rebuild does overwrite the 00_ethics file so I'm guessing it will need a compatability patch.