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Cohesive Armies
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12 okt, 2023 @ 3:39
4 okt @ 2:38
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Cohesive Armies

I 2 samlingar av mr.napop
Immersion, realism and logic
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Battle Dynamics
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Beskrivning
Overhauls moral dynamics to count more heavily on 4 basic elements of battle:
Strength comparison, casualties, leadership and momentum:

Strength comparison

- Number of local enemies to friendlies is more meaningful and penalizing if overwhelming
- Have friendly units guard a units flank makes it hold for longer
Thus, units perform more as part of an army rather than on their own.

Casualties

- Damage is calculated as models killed rather than HP, so a full unit of capable yet injured models will have the same base leadership. This means that single entities will not rout based on damage but rather on seeing others flee or being overwhelmed by numbers, to reduce single entity efficiency check Wounds.

- Damage inflicted also boosts the unit’s moral, so as long as it’s killing the enemy models in the same rate as it is taking casualties, it will negate the penalty. This means matchups are more meaningful.

- Immediate (4 sec) damage penalty is enhanced, while the overall damage penalty is reduced, so if a unit loses many models quickly it will rout quicker, but if it is slowly grinded or came back from rout it will have more leadership than before as it is not losing models at that moment.

Leadership

- Generals and heroes encourage more units much more but mainly locally, so units hopefully won’t leave their generals to die when fighting together, so moving them to support wavering units has much more impact.
- General's death penalty is greatly enhanced but takes time for the word to reach in the middle of combat.
- Siege leadership bonus greatly enhanced, so units won’t rout as easily if they will be killed anyway.

Momentum - Tactical withdrawing as re-conceptualized routing

- Seeing friendlies rout demoralizes harder while seeing enemies rout encourages you the same, making chain routs more probable but dynamic with regrouping potential.

- Reduced breaking time, reduced distance and enhanced breaking limit, so routing units will rally sooner without enemy distance constrain and with more breaking sessions before shattering, so routing is shorter and more local than leaving the battlefield altogether only to come back from a mile away. Combine with AI General II: Spectator Mode Advanced for AI assignment for rallying units.

- Army destruction (mass rout) is reduced but is potentially activated sooner, as it starts when your army’s strength is down to 75% rather than 22% (with double the enemy’s power required instead of 2.5 vanilla). This means that this threshold is not a whistle style complete defeat, high moral or fully intact units might still hold given not too many friends retreated. So, battles might be longer with more last stands and potential turnovers.

- Fatigue penalties are enhanced.
- Terror aura effect is equalized with fear (25m), but with less shock time, so it has bigger but shorter effect.

Additional alterations:

- Removed attacked from rear penalty which allows to safely withdraw engaged units, which otherwise immediately receive this penalty upon turning.
- Flanking penalties are removed as 'flanks secure' replaces them and these artificial bonuses are embedded in the damage done since you deal more damage from the sides or rear. Combine with Deadlier Engagement Dynamics for more flanking damage.

- Height bonus is enhanced.
- Charging bonus is removed.
- Winning/losing battle is removed as it’s embedded in the damage dealt alterations.

any comment/insight/request/bug is HIGHLY appreciated and welcome since this dynamic is harder to test for in pure “lab conditions”.

Recommended to play with my collection which addresses other battle aspects of the game.
15 kommentarer
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mr.napop  [skapare] 4 okt @ 3:06 
Hey bro hehe losing is what makes it real, thanks for the feedback:
- Lord effect is more meaningful as the bonus is 10-30 whereas the penalty is -30, since if the lord is not a major one troops want to follow, his demise is more penalizing than his leadership potential as they didn't have much faith to begin with.
- Reduced friendlies/enemies routing penalty to 15, indeed 20 was too high
- Capped routing units effect to 6, so maximum -90 for friendlies rout, so if a unit has 60+ base with flanks secured + inspired by lord it can hold a mass rout and get the routing units to regroup.
- Flying units removing flanks secured is logical as it's intimidating if a enemy unit is hovering over you.
- If you'd like extra challenge with chaos try Chaos is Unbreakable
Wub 3 okt @ 13:26 
I got my cav army mass-routed by Wurrzag, works great ( T-T)b

observations:
-lord sniping is much more impactful after the changes, it used to not do much to affect leadership before but now it's reasonably effective without being an insta-rout
-flying units behave a little odd 'cuz they can quickly remove flanks secured bonus for themselves/enemies. I don't think it's something that needs tweaking but it's good to be aware of 'cuz it can become noticeable when units are already suffering a lot of leadership penalties.
-friendlies routing effect can probably be tuned down, maybe to like 10~15 or so. I managed to mass rout a double-stack of Chaos invaders using one stack of birds and most of the penalties were coming from others routing.

anyway thanks for the changes, love your mods and documentation for said mods
mr.napop  [skapare] 28 sep @ 4:22 
Hey bro happened I just revisited the mod and edited that value exactly that addresses your scenario, along other edits:
- Enhanced army losses penalty (40->60)
- Detached from vanilla casualty values coefficients for more consistent values corresponding to the amount of casualties
- Normalized between recent (4 sec) and extended (1 min) penalties (16-24-48-72-108 where recent damage penalties account for less casualties for penalty)
- Local effects like being flanked, outnumbering and auras are more local (25m)
- Enemy/friends routing effect enhanced for more chain routes potential (5->20)
- General died more impactful (10->30)
- Enhanced bonus for cohesion (20->30)
- Enhanced fatigue penalties (2->5, 4->10, 12->20 for tired, very tired and exhausted)

Please feedback on your experience. enjoy!
Wub 27 sep @ 14:42 
would like if shattering were much more likely during a mass rout, am playing wood elves and I keep getting into a situation where I scatter enemy units across the map and they rally one at a time until I chase them all down.
むらさき 11 dec, 2023 @ 22:48 
Ohh I see yeah that makes sense. The skaven routing not just because it's skavenslaves but because it's their entire army routing (which are the skavenslaves) and other stuff. It makes for a funny mass rout all the same.

Damage dealt to unit huh. Hm, as I've said I was fighting rats mostly so they don't really have any rampage causing skills. Maybe the threshold for rampage got weird with all the mods I was running xd

Thanks for the clarification though!
mr.napop  [skapare] 9 dec, 2023 @ 11:53 
Hey man thanks! glad you enjoy it!

Skavenslaves have the "Expendable" trait, meaning their routing only affects other units with the "Expendable" trait like other skavenslaves, while clanrats and others don't have it so don't count in the "friends routing" mechanic for them. This means that the other units routing was probably from the "Stronger enemy units" mechanic or the -30 army loss, given the skavenslaves were the majority of force in the army, and not because the skavenslaves routed.

The rampage mechanic is impacted solely by damage dealt to the unit, not the unit's moral, but sometimes other units can cause it, like witch elves, so be aware who your fighting against.
むらさき 7 dec, 2023 @ 4:46 
Heya! It's me again. Just wanted to share a few things I've observed while doing a playthrough of Kroq-Gar

Number one is that: Skaven routs hilariously fast. It's a bit of a concern, but also, mildly entertaining seeing the other units of rats (be they clanrats, gutter runners, even heroes) just flee in a mass rout once like 10-20 units of skavenslaves break lmao. (Context: I got ambushed by three armies, the majority of which are skavenslaves)

Number two is that: It seems like with the leadership changes, the rampage mechanic of the dinos trigger quite fast into the fight (bit unsure whether it's from your mod tbh). They weren't at low health either, which led me to believe the leadership changes made it so.

Just wanted to share those observations as a heads up. Still enjoying this mod a lot
mr.napop  [skapare] 6 nov, 2023 @ 3:22 
I tried duplicating this situation but they mostly try to flank to the rear or retreat backwards if not routed already, on Normal and Very hard difficulty the same. I'm using "Ultra aggressive AI" and "AI army tasks" but I don't think they affect the battle AI.

Anyway as the vanilla penalty is only 5 it's not likely that this mod causes the no routing, and in my game they routed, maybe they were close to a general?

I once though of editing the grouping AI making light troops a flanker role rather than melee, or any other change but since abandoned it as it was a bit too much.
FailSafe 3 nov, 2023 @ 5:39 
the flanking I'm referring to is mostly fast cav like goblin wolf archers etc, they pretty much sit static (playing dwarves early game, cant chase them off), and die slowly to crossbow fire without breaking...ever

I get the removed morale debuff wouldnt do much, it was more me commenting on the one thing that felt 'off' still, albeit less 'off' than without the mod where the core battle line would break and reform constantly!

Not the worst thing in the world, just maybe something you might like to be aware of :)
mr.napop  [skapare] 1 nov, 2023 @ 9:44 
Hey man thank you for your sincere comments.

The vanilla penalty for missile fire is only 5, so removing it isn't that impactful and this mod doesn't change this dynamic tremendously. If it's decimated quickly enough then it should proc the "recent" (4 sec) and "extended" (60 sec) casualties penalty combined which is way more severe. if dying slowly then it might stay for longer, given their orders are to stay put.

However the AI does retreat if is suffers heavy casualties (mainly skirmish units), so I don't think your units should break if under missile fire, as you can manually retreat them.

Also the AI tends to face your troops, so I'm not sure I understand the positioning your referring to.