I think the steam machine has been designed to fit a certain price (and by now it's gone out the window because the market is crazy). And as a whole, it looks decent enough to me for now (the price will tell the rest). With a streamlined linux it's more than enough specs for most games (all is always going to be a stretch). And that is what most people need/want. A simple and cheap machine that you hook up to the TV and will run most games in a good, decent way. Most people don't really care for 300fps 8k gaming. And let's be honest, those people will always want to pick and chose their parts anyway and make a top machine with fancy cases, LEDs, water cooling and whatnot. It's about the specs and the bragging rights (I am not against it).
Also, remember that most PCs need a lot of hardware just to "run" windows, let alone the programs we want to use with it. With a much lighter linux you will get more performance per specs.
I play Cyberpunk on my xbox series S and it looks really good. The series S has 10GB of memory shared between system and GPU. Honestly, considering the hardware specs, it's astonishing the quality we get.
And no, I will most probably not get a steam machine. I like to tinker. I like to roam shops and used parts websites to look for deals. And I like to do things my way. I don't even like laptops.
I was never really a console guy but I did buy 2 xbox already (one s and series s). My series s was 275 euros with a controller included about 2 years ago. I couldn't get a half decent GPU for 275 euros back then. Come on... with 275 euros I can play a bucket load of games at 1080p. Cyberpunk runs (I think) locked at 60fps and goes between 800 and 900p. For 275 euros (controller included)?
I think the steam machine has enough resources to be a pretty good gaming machine. Just not for the "real" gamers. More towards the casual gamers, kids, older dudes that don't want to spend their time tinkering... Now, advertisement will be the real decider. Just imagine the steam machine at a good price, lots of adds on mainstream media, stacks of steam machines and steam machine posters at big supermarkets... just like they used to sell consoles.
I think steam needs to really make a good advertising plan. I am a bit sceptical since they decided to (at least for now) leave it in the hands of tech people. And tech people cater mostly to techies and gamers, so wrong crowd.
But I do hope the steam machine does good. More linux machines, better linux gaming for everyone.

引用自 TGS：

Is the Steam surveys near the end of a console generation a flawed measure for justifying the Gabecube's specs at this time?

Who is doing this? Users? Who cares what millions of clueless twits and pseudo experts are doing? The hardware doesn't need to be justified. People seem to forget Valve isn't clueless about PC gaming or their user base. There's no guarantee the Steam Machine will be successful, but the decisions behind it aren't random or uninformed.

Also whatever consoles are doing doesn't really change the hardware makeup of Steam users, nor do users necessarily base hardware decisions around console life cycles, unless maybe they're primarily console gamers who also only build/upgrade their PC's to maintain parity with the consoles they own.

All one has to do to dismiss this "question" is look at what happened to PC game hardware usage in 2020 or during any console launch. And if the answer is console launches didn't result in significant shifts in PC hardware, then why would it matter where we are in the current console generation's life cycle?

引用自 x：

I was never really a console guy but I did buy 2 xbox already (one s and series s). My series s was 275 euros with a controller included about 2 years ago. I couldn't get a half decent GPU for 275 euros back then. Come on... with 275 euros I can play a bucket load of games at 1080p. Cyberpunk runs (I think) locked at 60fps and goes between 800 and 900p. For 275 euros (controller included)?

I got one during the pandemic 2021 for 225€uros from a reseller with gurantee. Best purchase ever with the gamepass. Cant go in gaming lower than that. A shame the Console is locked as it would be a sweet little pc if not locked. Sold it last month for 200€...so i got my Value out of it ^^

Vram limitations they cant get around and it being on linux cutting out a massive amount of games its dead in the water to me

引用自 nullable：

引用自 TGS：

Is the Steam surveys near the end of a console generation a flawed measure for justifying the Gabecube's specs at this time?

Who is doing this? Users? Who cares what millions of clueless twits and pseudo experts are doing? The hardware doesn't need to be justified. People seem to forget Valve isn't clueless about PC gaming or their user base. There's no guarantee the Steam Machine will be successful, but the decisions behind it aren't random or uninformed.

Also whatever consoles are doing doesn't really change the hardware makeup of Steam users, nor do users necessarily base hardware decisions around console life cycles, unless maybe they're primarily console gamers who also only build/upgrade their PC's to maintain parity with the consoles they own.

All one has to do to dismiss this "question" is look at what happened to PC game hardware usage in 2020 or during any console launch. And if the answer is console launches didn't result in significant shifts in PC hardware, then why would it matter where we are in the current console generation's life cycle?

https://www.reddit.com/r/steammachine/comments/1ox0g6h/quote_from_valve_engineer_yazan_aldehayyat_the/

It's been interpreted that he was using Steam survey number to defend the Gabecube specs.

...and consoles matter because their specs effect PC requirements. As I said in OP, I've had to upgrade my previous gen specs for a new higher spec'd gaming laptop.

What I said...

"As I've been gaming on laptops since 2007, I've been through the jump in hardware requirements that happens with every new console generation. I've been able to pick specs that last a generation's multiplats"

引用自 Takeshi_Kovatsch：

引用自 x：

I was never really a console guy but I did buy 2 xbox already (one s and series s). My series s was 275 euros with a controller included about 2 years ago. I couldn't get a half decent GPU for 275 euros back then. Come on... with 275 euros I can play a bucket load of games at 1080p. Cyberpunk runs (I think) locked at 60fps and goes between 800 and 900p. For 275 euros (controller included)?

I got one during the pandemic 2021 for 225€uros from a reseller with gurantee. Best purchase ever with the gamepass. Cant go in gaming lower than that. A shame the Console is locked as it would be a sweet little pc if not locked. Sold it last month for 200€...so i got my Value out of it ^^

Still have mine but have been considering letting it go. With gamepass out of the question now, not much to do with it.

引用自 x：

引用自 Takeshi_Kovatsch：

I got one during the pandemic 2021 for 225€uros from a reseller with gurantee. Best purchase ever with the gamepass. Cant go in gaming lower than that. A shame the Console is locked as it would be a sweet little pc if not locked. Sold it last month for 200€...so i got my Value out of it ^^

Still have mine but have been considering letting it go. With gamepass out of the question now, not much to do with it.

Yeah Gamepass has become a bit expensive lately...If you dont need it let it go and save some money for the next toy (GPU, CPU, RAM, Gabecube...etc) I Dont think there will be jailbreak soon improving the value of this little white box soon...

I think ultimately most SMachine purchasers will be disappointed over time. Not because it's bad per se, but the lack of PC upgrade-ability; paired with PC pricing isn't going to end well. Your basically getting the worst of both Console and PC with none of the benifits of either. (i'm also not exactly sure it's thermals will be all that great, which equates to component lifespan {that you can't replace})

EDIT since they are (signaling) the pricing will be PC specific you could build your own at cost(minus the OS) AND have something that will grow with you. I think it's mostly targeted at non-Steam (steam users already have a PC)users who don't know any better and fan bois.


Depending on pricing you could probably shop on newegg on release day and might even find a comparable gaming lap top at a similar price point. (since those will have been manufactured before the mem pricing hike). With none of the logistical problems Valve is likely to experience in moving hardware(which isn't exactly in their wheel house, just look at Steam deck on launch)

引用自 DasKippa：

I think ultimately most SMachine purchasers will be disappointed over time. Not because it's bad per se, but the lack of PC upgrade-ability; paired with PC pricing isn't going to end well.

If its competing with the consoles at thee time availeble it better be priced wrigth. As a wise man said there are no bad products, there are only bad prices.

Also the majority might be better of with building a small form factor pc themselves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iimfDdRBtGo
https://www.asrock.com/nettop/AMD/DeskMeet%20X600%20Series/index.de.asp

I don't think it is a flawed way of looking at it.
Surveys obviously aren't 100% accurate but it's probably the best measure for hardware that we have. And by that measure the Gabecube supposedly meets or exceed 70% of all current Steam-using PCs.
The majority of Steam users are using a machine that is worse than the Gabecube. Our perspectives are just skewed by tech influencers and streamers who have $3000 monster PCs as if that is the norm for most people.

引用自 DasKippa：

I think ultimately most SMachine purchasers will be disappointed over time. Not because it's bad per se, but the lack of PC upgrade-ability; paired with PC pricing isn't going to end well. Your basically getting the worst of both Console and PC with none of the benifits of either. (i'm also not exactly sure it's thermals will be all that great, which equates to component lifespan {that you can't replace})

EDIT since they are (signaling) the pricing will be PC specific you could build your own at cost(minus the OS) AND have something that will grow with you. I think it's mostly targeted at non-Steam (steam users already have a PC)users who don't know any better and fan bois.


Depending on pricing you could probably shop on newegg on release day and might even find a comparable gaming lap top at a similar price point. (since those will have been manufactured before the mem pricing hike). With none of the logistical problems Valve is likely to experience in moving hardware(which isn't exactly in their wheel house, just look at Steam deck on launch)

Yes, but people complain about not being able to upgrade consoles... or at least half a dozen people do. 99% of console users know they can't upgrade and don't care about it. It's only a few so called "influencers" that have nothing better to talk about. Who the hell needs 10Tb of storage as I have already read about the steam machine. Absolutely no one. I have 1.5TB of storage and currently have about 500GB free. A couple days days ago I installed a game I have that has been in Early Access. Still not on the point I like, uninstall and I'll get back to it in a few months. This isn't 1995 when we either had the HDD full or had a stack of floppies with games.

And yes, it's possible that a "regular" PC can be had for the same specs and money (we don't know the price yet, so...). But most people don't want or care to "build" a PC. Even less want or want to know how to install windows or linux. They just want a machine they can buy, plug and play. Sure, online forums (steam included) are filled with people saying they can build their own machine. Well, yes. But those are not the key audience. The key audience are the ones that don't even go to online forums. The same people that buy consoles. My kids loves gaming. Is a super smart kid. But has absolutely no inclination towards tech. Last week I uninstalled chrome on the main PC and it was havoc.... "how do I go online without chrome?"... lol. People under 30 just grew up that way. Older people too don't care much for tech. While some people go buy a TV and analyse resolution, codecs, processor, LED type... others just want to know what apps it comes with.

I personally like the idea of the steam machine. It should be more than powerful for the casual gamer. Earlier this year I played (again) Death Stranding on a Ryzen 5 3400G with 16GB of RAM (well, 14GB since 2 were on load to VRAM) using only the iGPU. I found it enjoyable. Sure, didn't have the super duper amazing graphics with the acronyms but most people don't care. It looked good enough to me. And honestly... I spent about 600 euros on a GPU+CPU+SDD+RAM upgrade. I could have spent a lot more. But it's enough for me. I don't even know how many FPS I'm hitting playing games. Don't even bother to look at it. As long as there is nothing wrong, I just play. And I'm a bit of a techie. I just built a PC for the kid, part by part all picked by me. Probably around the same spec as a steam machine. But I do like to tinker and I do like systems that have the possibility for changes, so I'm not the target for the steam machine. Still think it's a brilliant concept and still think a lot of people might like it.

Also, having specifically designed hardware with a semi custom OS, the specs of the steam will hit harder than they do on paper. Windows eats up 4, 5, 6 or more GB or RAM just to "stay there". Same as CPU and GPU resources. A sleek OS won't need as much, freeing more towards the actual games.

It will come down to price and advertisement. If steams leaves the advertisement to the nerds and influencers, then it's a bad sign. It's like trying to sell a Dacia Sandero to Jeremy Clarkson... Yes, the Dacia Sandero has been the best (?) selling car in Europe, but it's not for the car enthusiast. It's for those who will say "this will do" or those that don't have much money.
They need to advertise to non techies. To kids, to mom and pops. They need to do youtube adds on non tech stuff. They need to stack steam machines on supermarket shelves... It's supposed to take costumers away from PS and XBOX, not away from the PC. If they had roblox, it could be a good selling scheme with cube stacks :D
And, if they can come up with some exclusives (I don't believe Half Life 3 will be steam machine exclusive but could be a steam exclusive). But again, Half Life is for the gamers that might actually prefer their own more powerful PC, not for the casuals. But might bring some older guys that have been away from gaming for a while.
And if valve comes up with some sort of subscription service with some games included, they just might hit the ball far enough to score some points.

But above all, for each steam machine there will be a new linux gamer, making linux more prevalent and "forcing" developers to look at it when dishing out new products.

I am not getting a steam machine (or I don't think I am) but I hope it really sells well. I'm one for the steam OS (or linux + steam), actually.

P.S.
For some years and due to adult life, school, work and everything else I was away from gaming. For some 10 years I had crummy computers that would barely let me go online. It took a 300 euros (or there abouts) console to get me back in the game. I was looking at 1k+ (at the time) computers or a 300 euros xbox one that I could use with that new thing called gamepass. It even came with Fifa "free". All I checked was if I could play Fallout 4 and GTA V. The rest I would leave to gamepass. The steam machine might be perfect for those guys and galls that have been away like I was. A cheap (I hope) easy machine to have some fun at the end of the day. I can even see a of older guys getting back to play the Half Life games (or like me, Black Mesa).
And there are many old games that are dirt cheap.

Steams hardware survey has nothing to do with consoles period.

It doesnt even make any sense. like what, they're going to get the next generation of consoles in the steam hardware survey?

One more detail. There might be a gap in the market now. With the downfall of gamepass and whatever is going to happen (if anything) with the next xbox console... I still think MS will come up with a "windows" console, making the xbox basically a PC using a "lightweight" version of windows. Ring any bells?

引用自 TGS：

Steam Hardware Survey is very flawed but it’s a reminder that PC gaming hardware is different from consoles.
Most PC gamers still have hardware below ps5 specs. Most PC gamers don’t have 12GB of VRAM. Many PC gamers struggle to run a big chunk of modern AAA games.
People complain that console level spec requirements for PC are too high. And maybe they are right considering the price of a capable PC. Especially back when ps5 was launched. Heck, many gamers still struggle to run some ps4 games.

On the other hand most PC gamers play at 1080p instead of 4K.

Ps6 is coming in 2 years or so and building a PC today able to compete in the future would be absurdly expensive. It’s a fight that can’t be won. People are talking about 24 or 32GB of VRAM for ps6 and with custom AMD GPU heavily focused on Ray Tracing.

unless Valve is able to design and make their own chips and able to make them at lower cost than Intel and TSMC I highly doubt they would be able to make something affordable that has better than RX7600/6600X
you would probably need at least a gpu that is similar to RX9070/5070