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Master of Orion

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Master of Orion >  创意工坊 > Spud Dastardly 的创意工坊 > 5X - The Ultimate Balance Mod > 讨论
5X - The Ultimate Balance Mod
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dD_ShockTrooper 2022 年 10 月 2 日 上午 5:47
Klackons are not fun to play due to all win conditions being unattainable due to factors outside your control
I'll start by saying that worst kind of 4x game is one where the outcome is certain, but the game refuses to end unless you complete 100 turns of pointless busywork.

Fortunately, Master of Orion was designed with this in mind and provided us with the Diplomatic victory, so that a winner is declared if they have 2/3rds of the galactic population. Unfortunately, this galactic council never actually forms because for some incomprehensible reason the developers decided to tie it to races meeting, an event that is increasingly less likely to occur the more lopsided the game is due to that increasing the probability of isolated trash civilisations that don't scout or do anything.

Fortunately, Master of Orion provides us with a second win condition, economic victory, which causes a player with absurd relative economic power to be declared the winner. This economic power, much like the population from the diplomatic victory, could be used to grind out a conquest victory trivially, but that's an utter slog that takes 100+ turns instead of a mere 10.

Unfortunately, if you are Klackon (or any uncreative race) and you miss the coin toss in this situation, you are now doomed to either wait 200 turns for another trash incredibly far behind race to research galactic economics (after you gave them advanced city planning, of course!), grind out a conquest victory over the next 150-200 turns (bombing planets takes an eternity and troop transports are finnicky micro hell), wait 150 turns for the council formation failsafe, wait 250 turns for the score victory, or grind out a conquest path to Orion (that is of course on the other side of the map) and win a science victory over the course of about 100 turns. The correct route to victory of course is to simply not play a game that forces you to wait around for 100+ turns in a clearly won position.

I don't care about win condition balance if it means I need to suffer through games like this. Vanilla at least I could set everyone to trade goods + research focus, put my fleet to sleep and quickly smash out a science victory (even though that was also a hellish slog already just with waiting for AI turns). Something has got to give; force the council to form much earlier, allow the galactic stock exchange to open without building a planetary stock exchange somehow, make the stock exchange not an optional tech, or delink science victory from Orion. I don't care which one it is, I just want Klackons to be literally playable on huge maps.
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Spud Dastardly  [开发者] 2022 年 10 月 2 日 上午 6:46 
With the unofficial code patch and 5XCPC,the council is forced to meet by a certain turn (i think 250-350) even if not all races have met.
#1
dD_ShockTrooper 2022 年 10 月 2 日 上午 8:58 
It seems to be turn 400(?) or so. It's a very long time away, as the AI ceased to be relevant at about turn 250. It's a good change, but it should either be earlier or configurable. Honestly I think the meeting requirement was a mistake in vanilla in the first place, and the forced meeting should be a regular feature rather than a failsafe late in the game. If I could configure it I'd set it to 100. Putting in perspective, I was in a winning position at about turn 150 and probably could've solo'd an election on turn 200. I'm too fatigued to ever play this file further.
最后由 dD_ShockTrooper 编辑于; 2022 年 10 月 2 日 上午 9:11
#2
dD_ShockTrooper 2022 年 10 月 2 日 上午 9:37 
I decided to go back and check the file, and the exact turn I gave up was turn 315 after researching advanced city planning. I loaded up an earlier save at turn 259 where I control 49% of the galaxy's GGP (9 player map lol). My tech score is literally double second place, and I'm in currently the process of completely annexing a race which will push me over the 2/3rds pop solo vote (and eliminate one of the isolationists preventing the council forming). It would take about 20 turns to complete this process. I suspect about 3 of the irrelevant races would've voted for me anyway though, since they routinely bribe me 20 dollars out of fear, and they're all on harmony after I gifted them all my colony advancements out of the impending sense of dread that I was going to fail the 50-50 on stock exchange, and I really wanted to get them up to pace (that didn't work).

So at minimum the forced meet is turn 350. Which is at least 100 turns noticeably late.
最后由 dD_ShockTrooper 编辑于; 2022 年 10 月 2 日 上午 9:40
#3
WhatIsSol 2022 年 10 月 2 日 上午 10:05 
Just set in globals.yaml, assuming you are using UCP

- globals: &Backend.Civilizations.GalacticCouncil
FORCE_FORMATION_TURN: 400

To anything you want.


Personally I do agree with the Galactic Economics structure was a poor choice for being a choice tech given it is tied to a victory condition. Maybe I will make that a forces choice for uncreative race, would be a simple fix for that one at least.
最后由 WhatIsSol 编辑于; 2022 年 10 月 2 日 上午 10:05
#4
dD_ShockTrooper 2022 年 10 月 2 日 上午 10:49 
引用自 WhatIsSol：
Just set in globals.yaml, assuming you are using UCP

- globals: &Backend.Civilizations.GalacticCouncil
FORCE_FORMATION_TURN: 400

To anything you want.

Oh, that's extremely helpful! Thank you very much! I'm going to change this right away.
#5
WhatIsSol 2022 年 10 月 3 日 下午 9:07 
Add.0.0.6.4: Uncreative Race in a game with the Economic Victory condition will always select the Planetary Stock Exchange if they do not already have that tech.
#6
Erenussocrates 2023 年 3 月 13 日 上午 7:04 
I think galactic council being tied to civilizations meeting is the only logical condition, how else do you form a council of leaders if they've never known of each other's existence anyway.

Science victory now being exclusive to Orion is a mixed bag for me at the first glance. It means not everyone can be a contender of it at any moment, and to me it kind of half-way eliminates the overall vibe of a science victory, like being peaceful and turtling. But at the same time it gives an actual importance to the titular Orion and an actual reason to go for Orion instead of a 100 other smaller planets combined that will do more than just Orion. To me, it almost makes combat an inevitability, which can be a good or bad thing depending on how you look at it. And the extension of new post-game technologies makes it work though.
#7
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