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Men of War: Assault Squad 2 >  创意工坊 > RobZ 的创意工坊 > RobZ Realism mod > 讨论
RobZ Realism mod
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RobZ  [开发者] 2018 年 7 月 31 日 上午 2:37
Doctrines
This discussion is for info on the doctrines feature.

Here you can ask questions or post ideas.

This feature is basicly all nations split up into doctrines and each player chooses a doctrine before the match which will give you access to certain units. This means each player has their own role in a game and more teamwork is required to play this effectively. This feature does not replace regular MP and is just a addition to the game.

Current progress:
Wehrmacht: designed and coded 14 doctrines, playable currently
Waffen-SS: designed 11 doctrines, not coded
USA: designed and coded 11 doctrines, playable currently
UK: not designed
Soviet: designed and mostly coded
Japan: not designed

Each nation has 4 basic doctrines and then additional doctrines with different purposes and combination of units.
The 4 basics are:
Infantry doctrine: Focuses on early game and has access to most infantry of that nation with no delay penalty on elite squads meaning you can buy as many elites you want. Has access to AT infantry, small-medium mortars and halftracks but otherwise limited later in the game.

Fortification/Defensive doctrine: Focuses on defensive gameplay and has units for early to late game. This doctrine includes all static weapons of that nation like HMGs, AT guns and mortars, also has access to ammo trucks and towing vehicles. This doctrine is the only doctrine with access to mine layer infantry, special ammo crate and engineer truck for building trenches. Has defensive infantry with sandbag kits and access to MG teams.

Artillery doctrine: Focuses on artillery support and has access to all artillery units for that nation. This doctrine has limited infantry and no AT other than direct artillery units or artillery guns used in direct fire.

Armor doctrine: Focuses on medium armor of that nation. This doctrine has the most basic medium tanks of that nation and is limited in infantry. This doctrine will have lowest prices on medium armor and get access to these units slightly earlier than other doctrines. Example of units: US has basic sherman tanks with 75 and 76mm guns. Wehrmacht has access to Panzer III J,J1,M , Panzer IV G,H,J and Panther A and G.

These 4 are just the basic ones, each nation has different doctrines with different purposes after these.

Some doctrines share units, but the delay and price might be different depending on the doctrine purpose.

Some doctrines also has special abilites like US armor doctrine has the ability to buy "sherman platoon" which includes 5 sherman tanks (1 with 76mm) at less cost than 5 individual shermans. Paratrooper doctrines has access to 200MP paradrop to use at the start of a game.

Doctrines

Wehrmacht

Artillery doctrine: Has all the artillery units of that nation and works as support for other doctrines.
Infantry: Grenadier squad, support crew
Vehicles: sdkfz8, sdkfz251, blitz3-6 heavy ammo, heavy ammo box, 8cm mortar, 12cm mortar, 75mm LeIG, 15cm SIG, FlaK18, 10,5cm LeFH, 15cm SFH, 21cm Mörser, 15cm Nebelwerfer, 28/32cm Nebelwerfer, Stuka zu fuss, Grille, Wespe, Hummel, Panzerwerfer 42

Armored defense doctrine: Has early-late game armored units that is fit for a defensive role.
Infantry: Volkssturm squad, Volksgrenadier squad, Grenadier squad, tank crew
Vehicles: blitz3-6 heavy ammo, sdkfz251, sdkfz250/7(mortar), sdkfz251/9, sdkfz251/17, Ostwind, Pz IV J, Elefant

Ambush doctrine: Has early-late game low armored anti-tank units and AT equipped Jäger infantry
Infantry: Jäger squad, Gebirgsjäger squad, Tank crew, Support crew, Panzerschreck team, Panzerfaust infantry
Vehicles: blitz3-6 heavy ammo, heavy ammo box, Goliath, 5cm PaK38, 7.5cm PaK40,
8.8cm PaK43, sdkfz250/10, sdkfz251/10, sdkfz234 puma, sdkfz234/4 pak40, Marder 3M, Hetzer, Nashorn

Breakthrough doctrine: Has mid-late game powerfull units for breaking through an enemy line.
Infantry: Heavy volksgrenadier squad, Sturmgrenadier squad, Elite Panzergrenadier squad, Mechanized Elite Panzergrenadier squad, Tank crew
Vehicles: blitz3-6 ammo truck, blitz3-6 heavy ammo, sdkfz251, Stuka zu fuss,
Pz III flammpanzer, Pz IV H, Pz VI Tiger, Pz VI Tiger dual call-in, Sturmtiger

Fortification doctrine: Has all support and AT weapons of the nation and works as defensive support for other doctrines
Infantry: Volksgrenadier squad, Grenadier squad, Fusilier squad, AP miners, AT miners, Mine disposal infantry/sappers, Support crew, AT rifle infantry, Grenadier MG, Fusilier MG
Vehicles: Steyr RSO, sdkfz8, blitz3-6 engineer truck, infantry ammo box, heavy ammo box, special ammo box, MG34 tripod, MG42 tripod, 2cm Flak38, 2cm Flakvierling38, 3.7cm Flak36, 5cm mortar, 8cm mortar, 12cm mortar, FlaK36, 5cm PaK38, 7.5cm PaK40, 8.8cm PaK43, 12.8cm PaK44

Heavy panzer doctrine: Has late game heavy armor, but lacks in early game.
Infantry: Panzergrenadier squad, Mechanized Panzergrenadier squad, Tank crew, Veteran tank crew
Vehicles: Kubel mg34, blitz3-6 heavy ammo, sdkfz251, sdkfz251/17, Pz VI Tiger, Pz VI Tiger dual call-in, Veteran Tiger, Pz VI Tiger II early turret, Pz VI Tiger II production turret,
Pz VI Tiger II production turret dual call-in

Infantry doctrine: Has most infantry of the nation and early game vehicles, but lacks in late game.
Infantry: Volksgrenadier squad, Volksgrenadier sturmsquad, Heavy Volksgrenadier squad, Sturmgrenadier squad, Grenadier squad, Jäger squad, Panzergrenadier squad, Elite Panzergrenadier squad, Gebirgsjäger squad, support crew, AT rifle infantry, Panzerschreck team, Panzerfaust infantry, Sniper, Semi-auto sniper, Veteran sniper
Vehicles: R12 motorbike mg34, R12 motorbike mg42, Kubel mg34, Kubel mg42, sdkfz251 mg34, sdkfz251 mg42, infantry ammo box, heavy ammo box, MG34 tripod, MG42 tripod, 5cm mortar, 8cm mortar, 3.7cm PaK36, 5cm PaK38

Luftwaffe fallschirmjäger doctrine: Has paradropped and ground based elite infantry and support weapons and assault tanks
Infantry: Fallschirmjäger squad, Paradropped fallschirmjäger squad, Fallschirmjäger squad (cheap), Paradropped fallschirmjäger squad (cheap), Panzerschreck team, Sniper, Support crew
Vehicles: R12 motorbike mg34, R12 motorbike mg42, infantry ammo box, heavy ammo box, MG34 tripod, MG42 tripod, 8cm mortar, 2cm Flak38, 75mm LeIG, 5cm PaK38, StuH 42,
StuG 3G

Panzer doctrine: Has mid-late game medium armor of the nation and lacks early game.
Infantry: Panzergrenadier squad, Mechanized Panzergrenadier squad, Tank crew
Vehicles: Pz III J, Pz III J/1, Pz III M, Pz IV G, Pz IV G dual call-in, Pz IV H, Pz IV H dual call-in, Pz IV J, Pz V Panther A, Pz V Panther G

Panzerjager doctrine: Has mid-late game tank destroyers of the nation and infantry is equipped with extra AT.
Infantry: Volksgrenadier squad, Grenadier squad, Tank crew, Panzerschreck team, Panzerfaust infantry
Vehicles: blitz3-6 heavy ammo, Hetzer, Jagdpanzer IV L/48, Jagdpanzer IV L/70, Jagdpanther, Jagdtiger

Panzer support doctrine: Has early-mid game armored and unarmored support units.
Infantry: Panzergrenadier squad, tank crew, support crew
Vehicles: blitz3-6 heavy ammo, sdkfz251/4 ammo carrier, sdkfz251 mg34, sdkfz251 mg42, 75mm LeIG, 15cm SIG, Grille, Brummbar, Wirbelwind, Pz III M, Pz III N, StuG III G

Recon doctrine: Has early game light vehicles and AT and recon infantry.
Infantry: Aufklärung squad, Motorized Aufklärung squad, Mechanized Aufklärung squad, tank crew, support crew, Sniper, semi-auto Sniper, radioman mortar call-in
Vehicles: R12 motorbike mg42, kubel mg42, schwimmwagen, blitz3-6 infantry ammo truck, blitz3-6 heavy ammo, sdkfz250, sdkfz251, 75mm LeIG towed, 5cm PaK38 towed, 7.5cm Pak40 towed, sdkfz250/10, sdkfz250/9, sdkfz223, sdkfz222, Pz II L, sdkfz234/1, sdkfz234 puma, sdkfz234/3, sdkfz234/4 pak40

Reserve troops doctrine: Has some outdated and reserve tanks and cheap bad infantry, no access to ammo.
Infantry: Volkssturm squad, Volksgrenadier squad
Vehicles: sdkfz223, Pz 38t, Pz IV E, Pz V Panther D, Pz VI Tiger II early turret, StuG III F,
StuG III F/8

Spearhead doctrine: Has early-late game assault units and works for beeing aggressive the entire game
Infantry: Panzergrenadier squad, Mechanized Panzergrenadier squad, tank crew, veteran tank crew
Vehicles: blitz3-6 heavy ammo, sdkfz251, Wespe, Panzerwerfer 42, Pz II L, Sdkfz234 puma, StuH 42, StuG III G, Pz V Panther G, Veteran Pz V Panther G

USA

Armor doctrine: Has mid game medium armor of the nation and lacks early game units.
Infantry: Rifle squad, Mechanized Rifle squad
Vehicles: GMC heavy ammo, M4A1 sherman, M4 sherman, M4A3 75mm sherman, M4A1 76mm sherman, M4A3E8 sherman, Armor special (1xM4A3E8,2xM4A3 75mm, 2xM4)

Artillery doctrine: Has all artillery for that nation, works as support for other doctrines.
Infantry: Rifle squad, support crew
Vehicles: GMC heavy ammo, heavy ammo box, 60mm mortar, 81mm mortar, 4.2inch mortar, M8 howitzer, 105mm M2A1L, 155mm M114, 155mm LongTom, 203mm M115, 105mm T19, 105mm M7 priest, 155mm M12, M4A3 calliope

Combined arms doctrine: Has a combined set of early-mid game support units and tanks.
Infantry: Rifle squad, Heavy Rifle squad, support crew, tank crew
Vehicles: GMC heavy ammo, infantry ammo box, heavy ammo box, .30cal tripod, .50cal tripod, 60mm mortar, 81mm mortar, 37mm M3 AT gun, 57mm M1 AT gun, M20, M5A1 stuart, M4A1 sherman, M4A3 sherman

Defensive doctrine: Has all support weapons of the nation and is fit for defensive support for other doctrines
Infantry: Rifle squad, support crew, AP miners, AT miners, mine disposal infantry/engineers, machine gunner
Vehicles: GMC heavy ammo, GMC engineering truck, infantry ammo box, heavy ammo box, special ammo box, .30cal tripod, .50cal tripod, 60mm mortar, 81mm mortar, 4.2inch mortar, maxson 4x .50cal, bofors 40mm, 37mm M3 AT gun, 57mm M1 AT gun, 76mm M5 AT gun, 90mm M36

Elite Troops doctrine: Has elite infantry and tanks for mid-late game, but lacks early game vehicles.
Infantry: Ranger squad, Heavy Ranger squad, Ranger assault squad, Tank crew, Veteran tank crew
Vehicles: GMC heavy ammo, M4A3E8 sherman, Veteran M4A3E8 sherman, M4A3E8 Fury, M4A3E2 jumbo 76mm, Elite M4A3E2 jumbo 76mm

Heavy support doctrine: Has early-late game powerfull support units and tanks.
Infantry: Rifle squad, Heavy Rifle squad, Tank crew
Vehicles: GMC heavy ammo, 40mm Bofors, 155mm M12, M16 4x .50cal, M4A3 75mm, M4A3 105mm, M26 pershing

Infantry doctrine: Has most infantry of the nation and early game vehicles and AT, but lacks mid-late game units.
Infantry: Rifle squad, Heavy Rifle squad, Marine squad, Heavy Ranger squad, Devils brigade squad, support crew, Bazooka team, Ranger bazooka team, Ranger recoilless rifle, Sniper
Vehicles: Willys MB .30cal, Armored Willys MB .50cal, Willys MB AT, M3 halftrack, M2 halftrack, infantry ammo box, heavy ammo box, .30cal tripod, .50cal tripod, 60mm mortar, 81mm mortar, 37mm M3 AT gun

Mechanized cavalry: Has recon infantry and early game light vehicles, but lacks mid-late game units.
Infantry: Recon squad, Heavy Recon squad, Tank crew
Vehicles: Willys MB .30cal, Willys MB .50cal, Willys MB AT, M3 halftrack, M2 halftrack,
GMC heavy ammo, M15A1 37mm, M20, M16 4x .50cal, M8 Grayhound, M3 stuart,
M5A1 stuart, M8 scott, M24 Chaffee

Paratrooper doctrine: Has paratrooper infantry and early game light vehicles and AT, but lacks mid-late game units.
Infantry: Pathfinder squad, Airborne squad, Paradropped Airborne squad, 101st Airborne squad, Paradropped 101st Airborne squad, 101st Airborne squad (cheap),
Paradropped 101st Airborne squad (cheap), 101st Airborne bazooka, Airborne Sniper, Support crew, 57mm M1 AT gun paradrop
Vehicle: Willys MB .30cal, infantry ammo box, heavy ammo box, .30cal tripod, .50cal tripod, 60mm mortar, 81mm mortar, M8 howitzer, 57mm M1 AT gun, M8 Grayhound, M5A1 stuart,
M8 scott

Tank assault doctrine: Has mid game tanks fit for assaulting, but lacks early game and late game units.
Infantry: Rifle squad, Heavy Rifle squad, Tank crew
Vehicles: GMC heavy ammo, M4A3 calliope, M19 2x 40mm, M4A3 75mm sherman,
M4A3 105mm sherman, M4A3 zippo, M4A3E2 jumbo 75mm

Tank destroyer doctrine: Has mid-late game tank destroyers, but lacks early game and other units
Infantry: Rifle squad w/bazooka, Tank crew
Vehicles: GMC heavy ammo, T48 57mm, 76mm M18 Hellcat, 76mm M10 Wolverine,
90mm M36 Slugger, 90mm M36B1 Jackson
最后由 RobZ 编辑于; 2018 年 11 月 17 日 上午 2:57
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正在显示第 1 - 15 条，共 57 条留言
Drion 2018 年 7 月 31 日 上午 6:56 
just to get this straight,
you can still get the normal game with all units and no doctorines right?
if so,awsome!
#1
Reachon 2018 年 7 月 31 日 上午 6:58 
Can you give a few examples of doctrines so we can get a good idea to how a doctrine is designed, so we can suggest other design ideas for those factions whose doctrines are not designed yet.
#2
Reachon 2018 年 7 月 31 日 上午 8:36 
@Drion , being that you can still have your regular MP factions, the tradeoff would be that the prices will be considerably different as well as cooldowns and infantry squad combinations. While the regular factions have their same pricing and units, doctrines will have cheaper units in their area of focus. An example, a Heavy Armor doctrine may have heavy tanks like the Tiger I - II or IS 1 - 2 and KV series featured at a much lower price, but will not have access to other units like elite infantry, light tanks, and probably have medium tanks be higher priced than normal. They may also not have defensive AT capabilities like AT guns or tank destroyers, so they must rely on teammates to help defend them (or solely rely on your own armor).
最后由 Reachon 编辑于; 2018 年 7 月 31 日 上午 8:38
#3
RobZ  [开发者] 2018 年 7 月 31 日 上午 9:59 
@Drion, Yes you will still be able to play the game like usual with full nations, this is just an addition to the alliance system.
#4
Reachon 2018 年 7 月 31 日 上午 10:51 
One idea for the Soviets:
Shock Doctrine:
- Has access to shock troops (with variations) (AP, AT, and Demolition (with 10kg satchels, or placeable charges if that's going to be a thing))
- Access to light artillery (76mm Zis-3/Su-76)... Idk about 122mm M-30
- Maybe heavy mortar
- Access to fast tanks such as T-34 and T-34-85... Maybe T-70
- Has KV-8/OT-34
- Maybe some breakthrough units like ISU-152, B4-M 203mm, IS-2, etc.
- Maybe Katyushas

Similar to Wehrmacht Breakthrough doctrine, but with a little more combined arms and fire.
#5
Walker743 2018 年 8 月 1 日 上午 12:38 
Sounds like a great addition!
I'm a little bit concerned about the Paratrooper Sqaud being able to be purchased at the start of the round though... Isn't this going to be a little OP? Or is it just in my head? ^^

Also, I know that there are no models for russian paratrooper, but if you had these, could there be something like a "Red Paratrooper Doctrine"? I mean the Soviets were those, who had basiclly the first Paratrooper divisions.

Thanks for keeping the mod active and alive!
#6
RobZ  [开发者] 2018 年 8 月 1 日 上午 2:47 
@Walker743, When I'm done coding US to a functional level I'm going to run a test to see how everything flows and how the balance is so we will see.
#7
NikTheGreek 2018 年 8 月 3 日 上午 5:27 
Very good idea!Might i suggest another way of implementing doctrines?It needs however a lot of research( i can provide all the needed information in a matter of hours if you want).Since it is a realism mod IMHO the best bet would be to organize each factions armies according to their historical way of organization,in the level of brigades for example.I will give an example: the British(since im more familiar with them) had armoured,tank,infantry,parachute and commando brigades.Some weapons and vehicles were common(as expected)between brigades but each of these brigades had its own unique mixture of units and weapons.For example a commando brigade didnt have tanks but had a lot of mobility and light support weapons.An infantry battallion had only 6pdr but not 17pdr guns.It is the organizational structure of each armys formation,that makes it suitable or not for a mission,whether offensive or defensive and its a significant reason why an army is better performing than others.By implementing this type of doctrinal organization players will be able to play more historically accurate battles(for example in the battle of Caen most of the forementioned type of brigades were involved)each contributing with his/her favored brigade type in the cause and pitch different brigades against one another(for example in Market Garden paratrooper formations fought panzer formations)making the game more enjoyable and educating by reliving certain operations.Im more than willing to help with historical info if you like the idea
#8
C（唱）T（跳）R（rap）L 2018 年 8 月 7 日 上午 2:37 
I want to play this mod in call to arrms ,please!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:steamsad:
#9
RobZ  [开发者] 2018 年 8 月 7 日 下午 11:47 
@nikpapach, I might make more historical doctrines later, but in the first update of this I will keep it as designed now.
#10
krabb 2018 年 8 月 14 日 上午 5:04 
This sounds very good and not so good at the same time.
Because as far as i am aware there is very little teamwork in large battles.
Also if the player who has access to all the great infantry squads decides to leave the match, what happens? Do other players gain some access to those units, as that is a very big disadvantage if you can only use low-tier soldiers.
But, it might also inspire teamwork.
#11
NikTheGreek 2018 年 8 月 14 日 上午 6:14 
Thats also a reason i proposed historical organization.Every armys brigade or division was more or less capable of conducting certain operations on its own but needed the help of others in some degree to ensure success.Take Market Garden,the paratroopers where capable of pinning the German troops but needed the armoured formations to achieve victory.
#12
Reachon 2018 年 8 月 18 日 下午 2:13 
Maybe make some doctrines that correlate to a certain theatre of war such as Afrika korps and UK/US Africa doctrines... Japanese and US pacific...

Also thinking about a Russian doctrine that may seem typical... A "not one step back" doctrine: where you are basically charging with many conscripts. Maybe T-34s and other light vehicles. A maxim. A special ability to maybe buy "charge" with MP, maybe at the start of a match too (since they are basically not trained). Then later buy charge with MP later on. Basically like paratrooper doctrines.

Another but already planned is probably the guards rifle/heavy tank/armor doctrines. For the heavy tanks, especially the IS2, I am not sure if you still have the skin I gave you, but you can use that skin for elite crewed guards IS2.
#13
Reachon 2018 年 8 月 20 日 上午 10:17 
Also thinking about a UK SAS doctrine as well as RUS Marine doctrine. (though I think it is already a thing)

There should be an ability for ambush/fortification doctrines to be able to use camouflage bags extensively (those things that grow bushes), so they can conceal HMGs, AT guns, infantry more often if there is a lack of foliage or hard cover. Either replenishable or a new ammo crate that carries items needed for camouflage (or could be a small crate of engineering tools, so you dont have to buy a 250MP truck). There should also be a new type of trench (if it is possible) that is a larger circular trench that can fit more than 3-6 people (the one we currently have) so it can actually fit support guns without clipping through the map.

Guards Rifle Doctrine infantry should at least have one PTRS/PTRD AT-Rifleman that comes with a second variant of the type unit rather than be a single unit purchase (though that too can be possible)

Also, I am not sure if for recon doctrines is already a thing, but the squad leader of every squad should have binos rather than have to get an officer to use binos. As well as possibly a radioman included with certain recon squads that can call in off-map mortar (or bigger) barrages. I do not know about snipers in certain squads too, but since they are recon, they could be cheaper and less cooldown (if you want to as a single unit).

Which brings up the idea of a Russian sniper (or Ambush) doctrine since they had used them quite a lot. Do not know right now if they used them more than any other nation.

Then another doctrine for Russians: the USSR Penal doctrine. Not sure on what they would have other than Penal infantry. Maybe the infantry have more explosive equipment like Satchel charges and AT grenades since that were always charged into basically impossible missions (could give them extra stamina for charging). Or in all could just be included as another variety of infantry for USSR Charge (aforementioned as "not one step back" doctrine).
最后由 Reachon 编辑于; 2018 年 8 月 20 日 上午 10:49
#14
canmancan215 2018 年 8 月 30 日 下午 12:12 
Will doctrines bringle back abilities from the single player such as naval strikes, bomber runs etc.?
If so that would be sick! If not no biggy love the mod, but would love to see the use of off map abilites. Be nice to see air and naval assets in one way or another.

Off topic, but will we see new factions such as France, Italy, and China?
最后由 canmancan215 编辑于; 2018 年 8 月 30 日 下午 12:13
#15
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