@illusionSIgn technically compatible i think, but i did not write compatibility for the new city levels. so they might be op

Is it compatible with megapolis mods?

I kind of want rgos to be a really good investment early game, but they should soft cap out quite quickly, initially i wanted to do this with increasing rgo price per location rgo level, but thats literally unmoddable. So i think i have to just reduce the rgo max level scaling.


@George Soros Gaming

I have not considered that, but its a good idea aswell, i am not 100% happy with pop cap yet. Its a really powerful tool to make this all work well, if we picture

Population Capacity <=> Housing


Ive played multiple games to 1836, (netherlands, brandenburg -> prussia -> germany) Can you explain how to even get potatoes? Are they part of the columbian exchange?

@Tydraestor , thanks for the feedback. Im currently trying to understand how the AI prioritizes builds buildings and i have the suspiscion that they only take monthly profit of a building as a measure to decide what to build.

Does anyone understand this better? Because im worried that there is a reason all buildings in vanilla cost 50 gold (rgo/production).

Annother thing im trying out (as was also suggested) is to reduce food max price, because there can be situations (especially for ais with multiple markets), where they just buy a lot of food because they can afford it, but stall their building spending by it. Ai seems to be performing much better with lower food prices.

Lastly i think pop cap is too high in some parts, especially for undeveloped places (no buildings and low dev). I would prefer if they hit the softcap earlier, making buildings and developing the places more valuable. In the same vein i am looking at reducing the max rgo levels from pop.

New balance seems much better, rewarded for playing well but not able to slingshot populations. RGO balance seems better too, perhaps a little harsh in provinces that are difficult to dev such as mountain/hills + forests/woods but, better than having super provinces with 30-40+ RGO levels easily.

Have you considered removing the population capacity percentage bonus from the climates that have them and relying solely on their different max winter levels to influence food production and pop growth? You could even edit them to effect each crops production individually, like making potatoes more productive in oceanic and continental climates, which would help simulate why potatoes become so widespread in those areas and the massive positive effect it had on Western and Central Europe's food security, population growth, and urbanization.

@karkento i will take a look at it, at the moment i have only implemented more variable and harsh winters.

Have you seen the mod that does variable harvests? Having instability in the food supply may lead to some more interested cases that instead of just capping out growth and knowing that you are set, the opportunity for a couple of bad years could lead to a short term famine that will make growth a little less samey and inevitable?

also do not try to expand food production in a city location, use rural for that. Cities sooner or later (the more you invest) will, rightfully become food sinks. And only crazy good food locations might stay food positive (irrigation, wheat, river, etc etc) even later in the game.

@Astraph i will give a small country a try before the next patch. In general, dont worry if you sometimes starve, keep your granaries in check, or destroy some if you overbuild. When you play a single city you have to be super careful how much you want to expand your burghers. I would strongly suggest to at least conquer the complete province or at least one rural location in that province. There you can add food that will be first stored in province, until the province store is full, then everything over the limit is put in the market to be sold.

Creating a single large city location is possible, but also very dangerous, you need to actually have deeper pockets then the other guys that buy food, ais wont run themselves into debt to buy food, so you can use that if youd like. Allowing you to urbanize faster, but it is risky.

I tried playing as a minor state (Frisia, specifically) and honestly... While I love the concept, I think the votes to increase building prices even further are a bad idea. In my building a single Fishing Village required at least 2 years of saving up (or intensive minting), and while this was manageable in the first few years, for some reason food prices jumped up from 0.01 to 0.14 (Brugge Market), crippling my economy around the time Black Death came in. Sam with RGOs.

I know the easiest way would be to increase food production, but with current prices I had very little chance to do anything in this regard.

Perhaps the solution could be slashing both prices and per building production? This way it would still take take the same amount of money to get the same increase in food production, but would give smaller states a chance to gradually increase their own output over time.

@Elessaer in general i would agree with this, but this is just not what i am seeing ingame. You are invited to run an observer mode game. You will see countries not recovering from black death for hundreds of years. Some find their niche, some dont. If you wait a couple hundreds of years and take a look at how much of these countries "gdp" went into increasing food production. There are CONSTANT food shortages, just check how many farming/fishing/forest villages the ai builds to be able to feed the urban population.
Wars, especially in europe absolutely devastate regions the devastation, the food prod reduction from levies all of this compounds massively.

Average growth is very FAR away from 1,3% globally, you can trust me on this one.

Tbh i think the growth of 1.3% is still too high. Especially since evey region has enough food and aslong as there are no diseases too decrease pops en mass. The 1.3% are too easy to get, most nation shouldnt be able to get more than 0,6/0,7%. Maybe half that and add another max 0.6% if the market storage is full aswell.
And just as an idea, increase the lowest food price, that not every nation can feed their pops with it.

@Thegrinch You are saying now products are too dependant on province resources?

What do people think about the production bonus for building in a province with the relevant RGO?

It feels like the building cost increase and this bonus is too much. I'd have to build multiple, now very expensive buildings, in a general area, or I build a single on in a relevant province and it stiates much of my kingdom...

Feels like the gap here is too large, perhaps like a 20% bonus to production and decrease in base build cost?

May just edit the mod fo rmy personal use, but was curious on others thoughts/experiences.

Balance Patch out. Please check out patch notes.

@beanfritter oh that is annoying, very good feedback, i have not considered this. I will look for an option reduce this.

One problem I'm having is that estate constructions seem to be massively increased with this mod enabled, and it's incredibly tedious to destroy every granary that they automatically build to keep a reasonable level of population growth.

@Delorean THanks for the feedback. For the player that is tool is food storage, you can reduce food storage (granaries) and it will reduce growth, even though food production is positiv. Buildings are becoming more expensive the more you build in a location, that value as many others might be too low though.

The population is growing too fast. I didn't do anything special, but the provinces became overcrowded, and it only took 200 years.
I think we need to slow down population growth. I also think we need to make all buildings more expensive. Add a province capacity bonus to irrigation structures and make them much more expensive.
And we need tools to slow growth when a province is close to capacity, other than artificial famine.
But you've achieved the most important thing: now the AI ​​doesn't spam cities

Generally im thinking about what changes (in ingame values) from before the black death -> after the black death. And i can only really come up with population itself reduces. And if i want to keep stuff dynamic, how could that in itself reduce pop growth, if only population changes? All buildings/ dev stays the same.

Also i agree plagues/illnesses are not harsh enough this is because they are still Bugged from paradox side, afaik. I wont change these (maybe there are other mods that do this) until they figured them out themselves.

Btw guys, i have read all the comment but didnt answer every single one, but i do compile feedback into a list on my side and try to tackle it from patch to patch, so thanks for the feedback.

Currently its:

- Food storage -> growth is slightly inintuitive and can lead to unhistoric growth patterns
- Black death recovery is too fast

What i couldnt (from my side) verify are:
- Crashes from farming village (these stopped since i the fix that came out > week ago)
- And ai non sensically overbuilding granaries, i do see ai spamming granaries in some provinces (like one location minors that are big cities) which dont produce food, but that i would say is expected behaviour, because these provinces will have much larger food swings in their storage from winter, the ai increases max food storage to reduce the swings. What i do not like is how that affects growth, i might have to see if i can cap that value at lower than 120 months.

@Karkento I ran a test game and generally would say mod state is best it ever was? I think the pop cap changes we introduced a couple of days ago working pretty well, maybe i can make them even harsher.
Still one annoying thing persists i havent found a good solution for, and that is recovery after the black death. Its just too fast. I will try to tackle this in the next couple of days and see what we can cook up.

How goes the latest builds? Excited to hop back in!

I've been thinking a bit about how you use the pop cap and have lowered it provide a soft cap that can help contain growth. Is there anything in the game that would allow you to have mulitple pop caps effectively allowing you to tune the maluses with more granularity?

@Salty.[BOAY] Meanwhile, REPALCE command is very faulty and unintuitive, and is not recommendable.

@Salty.[BOAY] "inject" command can inject only directly to the target, which means INJECT:EXAMPLE= { content } will only inject within the parsing of the "EXAMPLE" If anyone wants to inject into EXAMPLE = { INJECTION_TARGET = {} }, this is not possible, and requires full override.

@Salty.[BOAY] Attempting to partially override the script with separate script file including only the override target, while do somehow work, but does not work consistently and will randomly brick the save. They sometimes work without any problem, and usually do not, but whenever game client says "nope" it will instantly brick the save. This drove me nuts. :(

@Salty.[BOAY] I spent whole day researching on mod compatibility improvement and confirmed that, so far there is no known way of modifying building production method without doing total override of the script file where that building belongs. This is very disappointing. Even those "inject" codes can't inject code into sub-object, which means that, there is no way to use inject command to 'inject' production method to "unique_production_methos"

@J-12 since i just came home i am currently running a test game on the new 1.0.10 patch and will report later what i find.

That is why i decided to not further touch buildings/new production methods other than number adjustments, because there is such a high risk someones savegame will break. Its an absolute nightmare how they implemented this and im pretty sure they will fix that soon.

I will take a look at your link, thanks.

To your question, you should be able to mod buildings in a similar way i did in that file, but be SUPER careful, because swapping out buildings/production methods (as discussed before) will break your savegame, at least thats my current information.

@flyinghamster the only crash (that i am aware of) that was caused by my mod was how initially implemented the building changes in building_adjustment.txt . The issue was (by my understanding) exactly what you suggested it was. Wrong synthax to change production methods, this did not lead to crashes but it lead to wrong production methods (as in not intended) ingame. When i fixed that and corrected the synthax (patch was out for ~8 hours then, you can read in patch release when that was) it the new patch would brick your savegame, because if ais/players used one of the "buggy" non intended production methods, these would now be missing (because of the patch correction). Since then i didnt have any crashes, but i think i did some minor numbers changes on production methods, which shouldnt cause crashes (no reports and didnt cause any for me).

Salty.[BOAY] oonly your mod and yes on 1.0.10 but i think thats is my system problem

Someone discovered interesting method to mod the game. Looks like that EU5 included some advanced(?) commands to mod the script without conventional mode of modding the pdx game scripts. Check on https://psteamcommunity.yuanyoumao.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=3611955777

@Salty.[BOAY] Inconsistency of moddding script rule is consistent problem with pdx game, and script files sometimes require entire file being added to mod as modded script and sometimes it is not, which is very annoying.

@Salty.[BOAY] Was your mod modifying the building with "building_adjustment.txt" script all the time or was it recent change? I need to assure that buildings can be modified with separate script file with certain building codes only, and I'd like to get help.

@Salty.[BOAY] This is suspected issue with game client and I am not sure if it is true, but I did experienced game crash while testing my own village building mod, and I am still unable to be sure about it, as at same day other mod from other great modder had issue and that might have influenced as well.

@Salty.[BOAY] Have you changed how you 'mod' the certain buildings? It appears that, thanks to Pdx's stupid coding issue, modding 'certain' building only, by having script file including that specific buildings only, results in CTD at certain point. It is not consistent, but it do will randomly crash the game.

only way i know how to crash if you used different farming village mods. are you running 1.0.10?

I played until 1400. I kept getting crashes in both single-player and multiplayer. I don't understand why. I only use this mod.

3. as an example for how we want it to work in practice lets say we set our baseline growth to a 0.25% yearly growth, or in other words we set our b-d to equal 0.0025,. we'll set K = 1. And we get the following results for differing levels of storage. something to keep in mind is that a 1% growth rate will double the population in 70~ years

1 yr storage = 0.25%
1.5 yr = 0.351%
2 yr = 0.423%
3 yr = 0.525%
4 yr = 0.597%
10 yr = 0.83%

This is just a quick model and I think i'd probably adjust it to be slightly higher in either the baseline growth or the modified by storage growth if I were to try to actually implement this. But the point of this model is to demonstrate how the population growth rate should actually increase rather a direct 1:1 correlation between food per person and growth rate.

2. Here's an example of a growth model that I think might map on a bit better
Just defining variables:
b: baseline birth rate
d: baseline death rate
c: food need per person per year
F: food currently stored
P: population
S: food stored, relative to consumption
K: Adjustable nob for how we want the surplus to affect the growth rate

in our model S = F/c*P, so if S=1, thats 1 year food storage, if S>1 then we have a surplus of yearly food consumed.

When we have surplus we will want a boost in our growth, I model this as g where
g(s) = 1 + k ln(s)

This leaves us with net effective growth rate modeled by x = (b-d)*g(s)
or alternative written x = (b-d)*(1 + k ln(F/c*P) )

1. @salty.[BOAY] you misunderstand what I'm saying, I'm not saying that people wont stop as long as resources are sufficient. I'm saying you wouldn't expect growth rate to grow linearly with the amount of amount of food/population (which is acting in conjunction with pop cap as our pseudo carrying capacity). This is true for a couple reasons:

individual families have limitations to the amount of kids they can have, as theres only so many that they can pop out that actually live to adulthood. as a crude example, lets say for instance a couple has 4 viable grown to adulthood kids by the time they are 30, this would give you a yearly growth rate of about 2.3%. You can read into the literature and you'll find that peasants actually really didn't often have more kids than this live to adulthood than this due to issues with infant mortality. so as an expectation there should be a soft cap close to this at which point you get diminishing returns in terms of percentage growth.

will it work on 1.0.10 beta?
Try this mod, First imperssions - its cool but hope it will work on beta patch

2. So when is this likely the case, it should happen in urbanized provinces, it should happen in provinces where there are low food rgos and in general in provinces that run a big food deficit.

Since this is the only screw we can turn for this behaviour and we have to keep in mind that winter should create natural swings in food storage it is quite the small edge we have to balance food storage behaviour. This is also why i changed the pop soft cap so much, because it is such an elegant way to stop the ai from doing crazy stuff in provinces where they decide to spam granaries. Im am very happy with that solution and it makes sense in world (described in faq).

We essentially need to balance the mod in a way that the ai sensically builds granaries for food security reasons (which it is programmed to use them for) but have this behaviour lead to population growth.

Granary cost changes, staffed buildings adding a little food storage and pop cap help a lot rounding this out.

1. I dont know which patch we were on before, when you posted. But i can tell you i have slashed pop growth through many mechanisms across the board since a week ago, so you mightve been right then.

Its still not perfect but we are getting much more historical behaviour. I also love that bohemia actually suffers from terrible food rgos and actually pays for upgrading all mine rgo's so quickly, taking peasants from the farms.

To you granary point. This is the screw we can tune concerning this ai behaviour directly.

"AI_PROVINCE_FOOD_STOCKPILE_UTILITY = 0.20 # utility for province food stockpile modifier, upper limit based on total province food consumption change"

How i understand this, is that if the ai sees swings of 20% of province food stockpile in a province in a month, it considers it for building granaries.

Honestly, I have to retract my objection. At least on the current patch of this mod, after loading in my game from about a week ago, things seem to be at a fairly nice rate altogether. I ran an observer game and tested a save at the ~1600 mark which had been run up until that point without this mod, and both saves had in and about the pop growth and food behavior that I was hoping for.
If not much has changed significantly from when I first posted, I apologize.

And a side note, its quite cathartic to watch Bohemia starve.
Double side note, AI England built 10 granaries in little Bedfordshire and now has 4% pop growth there. It's quite the sight. Perhaps granaries are too cheap for what they do given this mod?

Updated description aswell to explain pop cap/pop grwoth a little better.

Updated the FAQ to explain how intend pop growth/pop cap to work in tandem.

@miftdd That growth will stop being linear to storage once the pop cap has been hit, im trying to use pop cap (understood as available housing) as a very soft way to slowly reduce growth.

@miftdd i have to disagree with this, afaik populations will grow until they hit whatever resources are insufficient (i understnad humans in modern times work differently), but in general it works that way.

Currently i am trying to use housing (pop cap) and food availability as these resources. Food production and housing are dependend on many other factors of course (satisfaction, prosperity, urbanization, farms, rgo etc etc etc.)