shouldnt elite units get past pikes maybe? perhaps you cant imagine it but it happened, otherwise pikes would have been the only weapon at some point

great mod. thank you

It would seem specifically hoplites have retained their original weapon damage values; this along with other stats make them completely superior to swords and all other units which are not hoplites.

I've noticed specific spear units, such as Royal Spartans, are unaffected by the damage nerf compared to other units like swords. Is this a mod conflict or did you forget a few values? I have checked my mods and while I have ones specifically buffing Sparta, they only add some units already in the game and nothing more.

Ah nevermind i read it. Thx for this great mod. :)

Hey setrus is it now available for Empire Divided? thx. :)

My bad, Setrus. I found out that these abilities come from the enemy general, like you said its right.
Though i've seen that all pikemen of Empire Divided doesnt have the ability to "create" the pikes wall.

Nothing I've done affect only the AI or only the player. But yes, a lot of units have had a lot of various formations and abilities either removed or added to make it play a little bit different. Hence why you might see celtic infantry assume wedge formations, for instance. But both you and the AI can do that when using them. :-)

Hi Setrus, i'm looking for a battle mod: i tried a battle using your mod and i liked it.
I didnt understand one thing: in this battle the AI used abilities it should not have, did you remove abilities both for the player and the AI?

You nerffed the wep damage, but you nerffed the unit's health also, so they dies at same speed without the mod..

Thanks for your reply. Yeah, I get the difficulties of balancing. You know, generally I attack around the enemy's left flank ( I stack my right), so maybe that's my problem. I'll try attacking from the other side, as you suggest. Thank you.

Hmm, I know, ginmunich9, it's hard to balance pikes because if I weaken them a little more they suddenly die like flies. :-/ Have you considered throwing javelins at the pikemen on your right flank from the left and so hit their right flank? The moment they have no shield-block chance, they die like flies. :-)

Hey, thanks for your mod. I like a lot of the things you've done. However, I think pikes are OP. I'm playing on Hard and my first cohorts and veterans are getting slaughtered. Even when I pin them down in front and hit them on the flanks and rear with heavy infantry or cavalry very few of them go down. My velites simply don't have enough javelins to deal with them either. If the armies are equal in number, I don't stand a chance. Anyway, thanks for your attention.

Rome 2 total F**cking failure more like

That is sadly out of my hands and likely most modders, it's not something you can easily mod. (or at all, though I daren't say that) I don't know any mod that does that, I'm afraid. :(
Glad you like it though!

hey bro, nice mod man, but what I dont like is the inicial battle formations on the AI! do you know of an AI formations mod I could get?

Ought to, if he's added new weapons, it might make units with those OP, but otherwise it should be fine. No heart attack mod just removes supporting blows, no? Yes, it'll work. :-)

Does this work with champo loo's golden unit pack? and with the no hearth attacks mod?

Yay, thanks for letting me know! :D

Works perfectly. Great mod. Thanks Setrus.

I will test tonight and report back. Thanks.

It works on my end, and I did update it, but there's this weird thing for this patch where some mods don't work for those subscribing to them. The latest update seems to have fixed many, but I'm not sure about mine. Test? :)

Hey Setrus. Just wondering if this will work with patch 17 beta?

It is possible to remove the magic abilities with this mod? Otherwise, it's perfect.

this is my favorite combat mod Attila is too fast its amazing how you can kill 4000 men in ten min

Errr...yes? No? I don't know? I'm not terribly active in modding anymore, got a little burnt. :-/ :-)

is this coming to Attila please say yes

Cheers, mate. :D

I Know its good this way ;)

Huh? All I changed was the missile block chance...? :-)

okay it doesnt matter put it the way it was before =D

awe...i loved the way pikes were last version. i just had to higher scalar and lower melee attack a bit and they were perfect. :(

Increased missile block chance, but morale-changes are freaking impossible to get right, and any more melee attack bonus and elite pikes turn to monsters against even flankers. :-p
You're free to go into the mod with pfm and play around with the numbers though if you're still not pleased. :-)

so out of 120 men, maye the elite should run away after 60 casualties, and 40 for the cheapest. Also you could increase a little the chances to block the arrows when facing the opponents, I mean if one unit of bowmen costing 450 or so can massacre an elite phalanx worth more than a thousand...


So actually the best tactic against pikes would be to divide them, faking charges and running away, bringing the ennemy wherever u want, shooting at thei back, or even scare them with elephants. But the stats must make them invincible up front, once again as they historically were (even by the best archers, cataphracts or legionnaires), so that finding a way to surround them means clear victory
I know im actaully being pissing u off so much by now =DDDDDDDDDDDDD

ahahahahahahahaha maybe u decreased morale a liiiiiitle bit to much.
hahahahaha. You should probably put their level of morale from 35-25

lol, just routed hellenic royal guard at 118/120 men with a few fire arrows. :-D

so they can still have very high melee attack in phalanx and be invincible up front, yet very easy to surround (if u decrease speed, Tite Live actually said they almost werent capable of turning around) and when it happens, they lose confidence, and get slaughtered very very badly.

okay :)

Hmmm, I'll run some experiments then, see what happens. :-)

i'm not complaining about them being useless, ur mod works ust fine for me now. But before u said they were too op with this melee attack bonus, so maybe decrease their morale. They'll be confident when they fight in phalanx and will destroy the ennemy but if their caught by the back they'll flee very quickly instead of fighting till the end as they seem to do in the game (but they never actually did that irl, when surrounded they would try to escape and nothing else)

no i meant that they should have this huge bonus in melee attack, but i think they should have morale, speed, armour decreased because u said with 600 melee attack or so they are invinvible. But if u decrease mrale, speed, armor, they'll be easier to flank, and once caught by the back, they'll be panicked (because of the lower morale) and will be slaughtered, like in Pydna.
Historically they needed have a good cohesion, otherwise they would break their formation and run away.
It's a way to balance these units as you seem to think they're too op if u just modify melee attack.

Their armour is reduced by 4/5, leading to them not only being very vulnerable for missiles striking their backs, but also in melee, once again, to ofset their huge melee attack boost.
Changing the morale of them when in phalanx is possible, but very much dangerous since flaming missiles and the like would absolutely wreck havoc with any levy pikes in no time.
And I'm pretty sure they DO push the enemy back with their pikes right now? *confused* (have you tried my "push of pikes" mod btw, since you seem to like the idea of pushing the enemy back with them)

So I've pretty much done what you're suggesting, as far as the tools avaible to me allows. :-)

I don't mess with unit stats, that to make unit mods work well with this one (those adding new weapons is a problem though) so increasing melee attack so specifically is hard.
HOWEVER, these are the bonuses pikes get in this mod when in phalanx:
Doubled melee attack, which is way more than vanilla adds.
40 extra missile block chance which they didn't get in vanilla at all. I could further increase this value though, if you feel they die too easily from the front still, I'm torn on the issue, personally.
Melee defense multiplied by 0, so their melee defense when the enemy gets through the pike is 0, ofsetting their extra melee attack (which they get whether using pike or sword), raising melee attack further means the defense of 0 won't make as much difference and will lead to them being better in close combat with swords against dedicated swordsmen or spearmen.

and u put melee attack to 750 for the elite pikemen when at phalanx, and 300 or so for the cheapest. Might take a bit of time but it'll make it way more realistic.

hey i got an idea. =D
You probably know what happened at Pydna, so maybe you could reacreate this. You increase the missile blocking rate of the phalanx, because the pikes held horizontaly of the men at the back would block missiles BUT.
You decrease significantly their morale, speed, armor and maybe health and defense in melee. So that they wreck pretty much everything up front, as the ennemy is constantly pushed back, and the lances break every assault from the front with nearly no casualties, and bolck missiles (total tanks), but if they're charged at the back or shot at from the back, they'll have very important casualties, and like they did in Pydna, Magnesia, Cynosephalea, they will be disorganized and will run away, causing general panick.

kk =)

Sorry, pfrantz, but I must take other things into account. The more I boost the phalanx's attack, the better they'll be from the front, yes. BUT it will ALSO make them stronger when flanked/rearcharged, leading to situations where a pike phalanx is nigh unkillable. I have to strike a balance, sadly. :-)

so its a good mod, better then the original, but 11% of my army (which was a lot larger than the cpu's) is dead. Irl, in the battle of Calinicos for example, the romans didn't kill more than 10 macedonians even though they were around 25k, not 500. =O
But still a nice mod =)

770 pikemen vs 510 legionnaires
85 dead pikemen 410 dead legionnaires.
I took a lo pikes so they couldnt surround me. The results are better without the 256 mod, but at that time, a pikemen formation was twice as tight as a legionnaire formation. Wich means one legionnaire had to go through two columns of pikes, which means 10 pikes and the same time to break through.
So 80 kills is good, but its still quite a lot/.

Must be a conflict then, I'm guessing. :-) In my custom battle test, I had to reform my one unit of pikemen once due to the romans "flowing" to the side once, but only 3 romans ever got through the pikes at the front, and they met grisly ends without accomplishing anything.