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报告翻译问题
We have a GIVEAWAY you can win up to 3 fantastic Steam games by providing suggestions to our suggestions / ideas sub-forum.
Make a new thread and submit your suggestion:
http://psteamcommunity.yuanyoumao.com/groups/transparentreviews#announcements/detail/988928478048004279
Thank you all!
More changes to the review system:
http://psteamproxy.yuanyoumao.com/news/24331/
Personally I'd say that while free key reviews are certainly valid, I can see why they aren't included in the overall, because the fact is it WOULD certainly bias people towards being a bit more positive, if only because they did not have any financial repercussions because they played a game. But I certainly think activations from places like humble and greenman should count. Especially once you've hit a certain threshold in terms of time played.
Thank you for joining, I invited you because you have some value reviews on Steam hidden behind the new system now ;-)
Thank you all for joining, the old group is deleted now since migration to the new group is complete!
Hope we can discuss some good suggestions / idea's here for a better review system
First off I'm gonna be honest with myself and say that I am not a hardcore reviewer and I'm one of those guys the serious reviewers hate: write a short and simple review. I don't waste my time writing long-winded reviews as I don't get paid to do it. Why I do write my short reviews though is because I want my vote to count. I want to say that I did say I love or hated a game.
That said, I do believe this new review system is bogus and biased. I hope there will be a better solution that will popup soon.
So - I think I've read the gist of the group's goal, being "rationalize the review system".
Correct me if I'm wrong.
Steam (Valve) is trying to curb the trending practice of (some) game studios from/in buying reviews through keys, the latter being rather fraudulent. There are more reasons.
Thus, knowing this, reverting to the old system is probably not going to happen.
Instead, it might work suggesting enhancements, that curb fraud while keeping
smaller studios afloat (amongst other nuances) through incorporating
various levels of ingenuity.
Looking forward to your ideas,
I am not sure about the changes as being honest I did not follow that and I would have to read more. I feel like Steam needs to do something so that the community values reviews moe.
I am very much NOT in favor of this new system. It's heavy-handed and punishes companies with established fanbases and niche games.
@Lin
I agree that our influence on Valve's decisions will be very limited at best. But I also think a
constructive approach is better than only ranting on the forums.
As I disagree with many decisions Valve made in the short time I'm on Steam I'm buying more
off Steam. If you sift through the forums you'll notice that the overall sentiment turns slowly
against Steams. So they will possibly be swayed in their aloof attitude by diminishing earnings and be more open for suggestions of their subscribers.
It's real crap that you can't even fix an error in the name of the group.
Best part about this group so far seems to be how many good reviews I'm stumbling upon. ;) Im gonna be sending some add requests it seems, cause frankly, apart from choosing friends in order to see some decent reviews on top of the rest, I sincerely doubt anything else will come out of this. Call me a pessimist, but I'm not really sure how much steam will care what customers have to say, their track record isn't brilliant. But hey kudos on trying nonetheless @cablenexus.
@Frigidman
Our goal is to turn changes back to normal. You have over 50+ reviews and I scrolled though most of them and all seems very legit. Written by a game enthousiast. Not biased towards negative/positive, short reviews, long reviews but all informative. Please continue them, but I understand your feelings completely.
You know after having my many legit external purchase reviews now deemed 'unfit for consideration'... it has made me want to purchase my games even more so from external sources.
Also if they do not revert this change, I will be deleting ALL my reviews from the system, and be done with reviews entirely.
Thank you for joining Blackadar! Reviewing over 20 years already! Great to see you here.
And of course to all others who joined, Thank you
Leave your suggestions in the comments or in our forum, the general Steam forum or elsewhere!
I asked one of the Steam moderators to correct the spelling error in the title for us.
Thank you.
Transparent*
Thank you all so much for joining!
50 members already in an hour and I assign two moderators for removing spam/CSGO/trade things in the forum and the comment section if needed.
Thank you Haldurson and h. barkas!
Please feel free to discuss what you want to see changed to the review system and what you like/dislike from the new policy here in the comments or in the forum in the pinned thread. (I will move suggestions daily from here to the forum as well.)
Thank you barkas, there is no rush we can discuss everything calm here and we can make a list with all suggestions in the end and send them to Steam. That is my goal. At least have the feeling we did something and in the future whatever more changes are coming good or bad, thank you for joining
And you too Phara Dar, I appreciate their efforts to expose false devs as well but like you I feel a suspect myself for something I didn't do wrong. Hope we can bring this to attention, thank you for joining
I understand why Steam did it (mostly), but they are punishing all the innocent people who bought the game from some other means and write a review. Solution? I don't know... Maybe this is the best Steam could think of and why they implemented it. I would rather have another way though.
Sorry for being late to the party. Thanks for the invite Cablenexus. My main concerns about the new review policy:
a) UI defaulting to Steam only reviews. It should be the user's choice which reviews he wants to see and this choice should be permanent/saveable until he decides otherwise.
b) due to the UI defaulting to Steam only well written and helpful reviews will fly under the radar of potential buyers. Who clicks on All every time?
c) Through effectively making off Steam reviews invisible and not counting votes of 'outsiders' ratings of big AAA Publishers who sell lots of games on other sites are potentially skewed..
Yes I'm doomed with the error forever since Steam doesn't allow to change the groupname anymore since there are so many members in a short time.
But we keep fighting !
Thanks for the invite. Is there a typo in the group's name? AFAIK the proper spelling is "transparent." Cheers.
You are right I made the suggestions thread.
It's not the final but with all the input I make a pinned list later next week.
Shouldn't this discussion be in one of the group's threads and not in the comments?
Anyways I don't think Steam is going to change the system. For one there is far too many people who just don't care about this "problem" compared to the people who don't like it. And two, it has been Steam's MO for the longest time to provide a quick, easy and half-assed solution to one of the issues that plague the service. It's known they don't have nearly enough manpower for the millions of things they should curate.
They might still change some stuff with the system in the future since they already mentioned something about helpful reviews not being helpful (or something along the lines, can't remember).
@Start_Running that is a fair point. But just let them know if you have suggestions.
One reason for me to start the group is to organize it all in one place and send them once.
But of course everyone is free to do so and my experience with support is good. (and fast).
They eventually only have to send the suggestion to the right departement.
And keep discussing in Steam's general forums and invite friends/family and random Steam strangers to the group if you think they provide trusted feedback
I will not be doing that. FOr one. I've already adapted to the review system, for two, do we really need more fluff tickets getting in the way of people who have genuine prioblems?
I want to encourage everyone with suggestions also to make a ticket to Steam support.
If we let them know what we like and dislike from the new system we have a greater change there is something changed in the long term.
https://support.steampowered.com/
That one I think everyone can agree with.
My point of interest is tweaking the family sharing part and the language part because I saw some errors myself there.
Also I really want to get rid of the mark (the question mark on the review page) that states that the key is "possible obtained in return for a free review".
I also want to bring to attention that I like as much transperancy, so also want to find solutions to counter false negative reviews to blackmail publishers.
The best suggestion I have heard is give users rthe ability to decide whether to have the reduced or full pool for reviews.
Thank you everyone for joining!!!
Already 21 members and it's my first ever group on Steam.
I discuss at the moment with some friend who knows more about groups to be able to configure how everything works exactly.
My goal is to make a list with suggestions and hopefully send them soon to Steam.
Those suggestions I will pinn in a new thread and we can discuss (because not everyone in the group shares the same opionion) which suggestions could eventually make it and which suggestions are useles and debunked because simply not possible.
thom-22 is very good at that part. I hope for your feedback.
I hope everyone gives feedback. Feel free to speak out everything you want.
There are no trolls here and we can respectfully disagree with each others suggestions.
If the list is finished we can send it to Ticket Support and make a forum post.
Other ideas are more then welcome!
The solution is never to divide the user base intio smaller sections. To say nothing iof the buy, idle, review, refund. Look. The new review method does not stop people from working around the system, all it does is actually make those who do so even more effective. and worse it gives the consumer a false sense of security.
Hence why the aggregate has now become pretty useless to those who can think things through.
Because again even sgregating complimentary smacks of punishing or singling out people and devs who legitimately are just trying to get people to try their product.
Now, if you're saying that people who play a free-to-play game ought to also have the right to review it:
File all Complimentary-license games (though not non-game items like that TF2 In-Game Upgrade) under non-calculation, EXCEPT for games that are free-to-play.
For free-to-play games (including entirely-free games), allow non-limited (i.e. paid $5) accounts to have reviews that go into the aggregate calculation.
OR
Give a further categorization, and differentiate between the reviews of free-playing players and paying players.
"Plenty of titles offer free weekends or timed limited give aways as a means of promoting one product or another."
These are all marked Complimentary.
"The reason they'd have to count is because otherwise you'd never have any reviews counted for Free to play games like say Tf2, Dota2, Everquest 2"
Free-to-play games are already handled differently -- the fact that they don't show up in one's library when one moves to another computer shows this already.
It's possible for Steam to count only reviews from people who have put money into free-to-play games, and it's certainly possible for Steam to detect whether people have done so. TF2 for example shows a specific license item called "Team Fortress 2 - In-Game Upgrade". (It's a slight problem that this item says "Complimentary" itself, but since it's not the same as "Team Fortress 2", Steam can certainly distinguish them.)
Thank you thom-22 I did it on purpose and some others too from which I know they do not share my opinion because I value your feedback even when we disagree.
You are more the hard data and me the emotion ;-)
Thank you for joining!
Thanks for the invite, Cablenexus. Very honorable of you considering you know we disagree to some extent. :-) We agree there are various problems with the review system; to me Valve corrected the one that is most outrage-worthy, ie. when the party with a financial stake in the thing being reviewed solicits sham reviews. That users themselves eff up the system in all sorts of ways (eg. joke and one-liner reviews) is unfortunate, but not fraudulent.
They wouild be. And observation would show nothing. Plenty of titles offer free weekends or timed limited give aways as a means of promoting one product or another.
The reason they'd have to count is because otherwise you'd never have any reviews counted for Free to play games like say Tf2, Dota2, Everquest 2
(1) Valve can directly observe this behavior, and (2) Valve has a record of how people acquired each game. If you check on your "View licenses and product key activations" page, you will find that games acquired in free-to-own periods are marked "Complimentary".
I've been wondering whether those counted, but it is certainly very much possible for Valve to make reviews from those people not count in the total.
Except that it only makles the problem worse quint. ALl the dev has to do is put the game up for a liomioted free to own offer (publicized only to a select group of course) and bnam loads of steam based paid reviews that count, The amount gets multi pl;ied if these folks family share the copy to others who can also leave a review.
Same effect as the dev giving away free keys except now those shill votes have even greater impact.
I think that this new review system is a promising change, though it can still be improved further.
The idea of using only Steam purchasers' reviews is an elegant solution that I like.
However, users should have the choice to opt into seeing aggregate scores from all reviewers, not just Steam purchasers, if they so choose.