No. War and national security is not murder

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パエトーン (Belle) 5. dec. kl. 16:19

No. War and national security is not murder

If boats don't want to be intercepted by the US military, then they shouldn't be working for cartels smuggling dangerous drugs to enrich themselves at the cost of American lives.

Do you think the USA military is just blowing every random boat that sails from South America?
No. They have intelligence agencies. They intercept communications. They know where a boat is coming from, where it's going, who they're talking to, and what they're carrying.

And of course they won't give details on how these operations are being carried out right now, because the operations are ongoing. You don't give the enemy a blueprint to avoid detection.

Sidst redigeret af パエトーン (Belle); 5. dec. kl. 16:25

Forfatteren af dette emne har markeret et indlæg som svaret til sit spørgsmål.
Klik her for at hoppe til det indlæg.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Day 1:

Party I like is in power: "Everything the government does is acceptable. The government does no wrong."
Party I don't like is in power: "Time to question everything."

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a haunted VHS tape 5. dec. kl. 16:36

Why do you think US intelligence agencies are a) absolutely competent or b) actually going to be listened to if they say something contradictory to what the executive wants? That's been their history as a thing at least since the end of the cold war lol

edit: but anyway, extrajudicial killings of people have never been a good look for any of the US governments of the last... Too many years. That's pretty much it. So obviously, thanks Obama. Peace out xoxo

Sidst redigeret af a haunted VHS tape; 5. dec. kl. 16:39

Forfatteren af denne tråd har angivet, at dette indlæg besvarer det oprindelige emne.

Day 1 5. dec. kl. 16:38

Party I like is in power: "Everything the government does is acceptable. The government does no wrong."
Party I don't like is in power: "Time to question everything."

パエトーン (Belle) 5. dec. kl. 17:34

Oprindeligt skrevet af a haunted VHS tape:
Why do you think US intelligence agencies are a) absolutely competent or b) actually going to be listened to if they say something contradictory to what the executive wants? That's been their history as a thing at least since the end of the cold war lol

edit: but anyway, extrajudicial killings of people have never been a good look for any of the US governments of the last... Too many years. That's pretty much it. So obviously, thanks Obama. Peace out xoxo

You make it sound like they're killing innocent civilians. They're not. It's dangerous drug smugglers. And that's why it's come to this.

Stingray_tm 5. dec. kl. 17:40

The United States is not at war. Only congress can declare war. So killing those people was murder. And if the United States was in a war then killing people after they have been taken out of action would be a war crime. So there is no scenario in which what the US Navy did was okay.

Stingray_tm 5. dec. kl. 17:42

Oprindeligt skrevet af パエトーン (Belle):
Do you think the USA military is just blowing every random boat that sails from South America?

They absolutely do not make sure, that non-lethal measures to apprehend the suspects are being taken. How do I know that? Because after the military has been critcised for potentially commiting a crime suddenly they somehow started taking prisoners. So that obviously never was not an option.
Strange, isn't it?

Stingray_tm 5. dec. kl. 17:43

Oprindeligt skrevet af パエトーン (Belle):
You make it sound like they're killing innocent civilians. They're not. It's dangerous drug smugglers. And that's why it's come to this.

Even if they all were drug smugglers, you can't just kill criminals. You apprehend them and then you prosecute them.

Stingray_tm 5. dec. kl. 17:47

Oprindeligt skrevet af Day 1:
Party I like is in power: "Everything the government does is acceptable. The government does no wrong."
Party I don't like is in power: "Time to question everything."

Obama ordering extrajudicial killings was also wrong. So stop using that strawman ever again.

HeyYou 5. dec. kl. 17:53

Oprindeligt skrevet af Stingray_tm:
Oprindeligt skrevet af Day 1:
Party I like is in power: "Everything the government does is acceptable. The government does no wrong."
Party I don't like is in power: "Time to question everything."

Obama ordering extrajudicial killings was also wrong. So stop using that strawman ever again.

While you may not like his tactic, it's not like he is wrong...... It's actually a pretty accurate assessment of american politics at the moment.

That said, if, in the process of apprehending those criminals, they start shooting, it is perfectly acceptable to shoot back. Also, if you hail them, tell them to heave to, and they do not, disabling their vessel is within the realm of reasonable. Blowing it into tiny pieces might be a bit overboard..... but, if you aren't doing anything wrong, then you shouldn't need to be running.

Stingray_tm 5. dec. kl. 17:55

Oprindeligt skrevet af HeyYou:
Oprindeligt skrevet af Stingray_tm:

Obama ordering extrajudicial killings was also wrong. So stop using that strawman ever again.
While you may not like his tactic, it's not like he is wrong...... It's actually a pretty accurate assessment of american politics at the moment.

That said, if, in the process of apprehending those criminals, they start shooting, it is perfectly acceptable to shoot back. Also, if you hail them, tell them to heave to, and they do not, disabling their vessel is within the realm of reasonable. Blowing it into tiny pieces might be a bit overboard..... but, if you aren't doing anything wrong, then you shouldn't need to be running.

The issue is: Did they? According to all we know, there was no step step taken before drone striking them. And the fact, that the Navy managed to take prisoners after being accused of war crimes disproves the vapid excuse, that every single boat fires at a US military ship. (And I will ignore the ridiculous claim, that a US warship was in any way threatened or in danger by small arms fire)

Sidst redigeret af Stingray_tm; 5. dec. kl. 17:57

PaulKrawitz 5. dec. kl. 20:27

Every kill is murder... how it's worded and justified just depends on who did it.

Sidst redigeret af PaulKrawitz; 5. dec. kl. 20:27

#10

Day 1 5. dec. kl. 20:51

Oprindeligt skrevet af Stingray_tm:
Oprindeligt skrevet af Day 1:
Party I like is in power: "Everything the government does is acceptable. The government does no wrong."
Party I don't like is in power: "Time to question everything."

Obama ordering extrajudicial killings was also wrong. So stop using that strawman ever again.

You're not from the United States.

#11

Gracey Face 5. dec. kl. 20:53

Oprindeligt skrevet af Stingray_tm:
Oprindeligt skrevet af Day 1:
Party I like is in power: "Everything the government does is acceptable. The government does no wrong."
Party I don't like is in power: "Time to question everything."

Obama ordering extrajudicial killings was also wrong. So stop using that strawman ever again.

If it was wrong why did you not complain about it?

#12

Gracey Face 5. dec. kl. 20:54

Oprindeligt skrevet af Stingray_tm:
The United States is not at war. Only congress can declare war. So killing those people was murder. And if the United States was in a war then killing people after they have been taken out of action would be a war crime. So there is no scenario in which what the US Navy did was okay.

This isn't true. Congress automatically authorises the president to go to war for 60 days at any point, and they can then continually re-authorise another 60 days in perpetuity. They do not call it war however, it's got some other label

#13

MonkehMaster 5. dec. kl. 20:56

i have already commented on this topic, in other threads, so.... ill just paste it, instead of retyping everything.

Oprindeligt skrevet af MonkehMaster:
zero fisherman, no matter how many times people try claiming it.

the videos "blowing them up" speak for themselves... i watched them with my eyes open, thats how you witness things in real time, before making random false claims.

seeing massive packaged drugs, like i have seen and experience in my life time, since the 80's, gives me great perspective on these situations.

as well... trump isnt the only president, whom has "blown up" drug boats and gotten complaints over it.

anywho...

since when do people whom are fisherman, repeatedly go to waters, where boats are being blown up? do people who make these wild claims... think everyone there has no sense of "life preservation", or brains for that matter? you think all of them will ignore "boats being blown up" and continue going over there, to be "blown up"????

i dont think so..., but hey, how about those "fishing submarines"? i heard those are great for underwater "pole fishing", as well as "flying fishing"

anyone making these claims and thinking "fisherman" will repeatedly go to areas to "get themselves blown up", might have some really bad perspectives on life and human behavior.

anywho, lets not also note this... cause it might mess with narratives...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fa30TWqVKrc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0GUyywbb9g
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mx0i0C6LP0
whoops, my fault..., i didnt mean to rain on peoples TDS parades (or should i say, " charades")

"history of south american drug smuggling"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IrhqLvAhli0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SO-gcxJOOj8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPYMGr4prEM
"drug cartels, full history, in long form"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8JTrJIQlg_k

"the more you know"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Ygs3IHJ2bM

also adding my past comment for the humor.
Oprindeligt skrevet af MonkehMaster:
they were probably "threatening" the fish with a "good time", i heard its the better than bait, when it comes to fishing

have a nice day

Sidst redigeret af MonkehMaster; 5. dec. kl. 20:57

#14

MonkehMaster 5. dec. kl. 20:59

Oprindeligt skrevet af Stingray_tm:
Oprindeligt skrevet af Day 1:
Party I like is in power: "Everything the government does is acceptable. The government does no wrong."
Party I don't like is in power: "Time to question everything."

Obama ordering extrajudicial killings was also wrong. So stop using that strawman ever again.

speaking of obama...

Oprindeligt skrevet af MonkehMaster:
presidents before trump, were never accountable/prosecuted/indicted?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dkxGq3V2bnU
obama extra info about terroists.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r88oQkL0Ocg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fag9T12UK_w
just look up obama drone strikes, he ended many lives, including innocents, as well as US citizens.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WWKG6ZmgAX4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcosZEN6e54
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qIJr_Pr6A4o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LZwjaB55b0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qLmw9TgJ70k
anyone ever hear of "operation fast and furious"?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95Ve5-QNHfw

have a nice day