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Warlock For 6 timer siden
Bethesda hates New Vegas
Or more accurately to say Todd Howard and some people in Bethesda studios hate Fallout: New Vegas. A tired old title and post, I know, I used to not believe that as well, but after recent "Fallout Day" or more accurately Fallout 4 and 76 Marketing Day I really do believe that Bethesda has some hidden contempt or disdain for New Vegas and old Fallout IPs. And the aggressive pushback Bethesda shills and tourists pull like how old fans have "victim complex" or are just never happy with anything only gives me pushback that it is so. The troubling part is is how so many people are lying or are convinced of the lies, more on that later.

How do we know Bethesda hates New Vegas? Well, the very oldest claims is how Bethesda promised a bonus for Obsidian if the Metacritic score was at 85 or above. The thing is Metacritic is not a reliable website to make such conditions, it's a site where almost anyone can review the game, or show, or a movie, the site won't even check if the reviewer played the game or not. Not to mention there can always be done a backroom deal with game journalists to rate the game at lower rating than it deserves, hence why the Metacritic score was rigged from the start.
Another case in point is how Obsidian and Bethesda never worked again on any of the projects after nor could you find them in one room together, unless we count sellouts like Tim Cain who was invited to the premiere of the tv show.

Defenders always try to pull counterarguments like Todd repeatedly praising New Vegas, or speaking well of Obsidian, and Obsidian refuting the claims of the New Vegas fans, but it's an easily debunkable point because to be frank Obsidian and Bethesda ain't obviously going to have a petty argument out in the open. The two are like a divorced couple who claim on the streets they're still best friends and are fond of each other while deep down they have contempt for one another.

That's part of the old claims there were, what are the new potential signs that Bethesda loathes New Vegas and in part Obsidian. Well, the evidence is none other than their own marketing stunt they'll be doing each year every year - the "Fallout Day"

https://youtu.be/-IZm-Hws334?t=1760 - watch at 29:20 the presenter's change of expression from speaking fondly of Fallout 4 to beginning mention of Fallout: New Vegas' 15th anniversary. Notice also the language used when talking about this.

"We need to talk about another Fallout game (...)" need, not want, nor should. Need. Need means it is done out of necessity, obligation, not out of genuine desire to talk about New Vegas' anniversary. Also notice how she is more fast paced here, like she wants to get over with this fast. Does this sound like someone who has mutual respect for a past co-worker, or is it more like an ex-girlfriend with a grudge against their boyfriend? The answer seems to be obvious. If it isn't enough, they aren't even remaking or remastering the game, they just added a fancy statuette and slapped an insane price tag to rip fans off. This is not love, this is hate and exploitation.

https://youtu.be/-IZm-Hws334?t=2700 (45:00) - Con artist himself has not mentioned anniversary for Fallout: New Vegas at all when time came for his presentation. Only anniversary for Fallout 4, and just more advertising for cash grabs like anniversary edition, the tv show, and Fallout 76.

All of this convinced me that Todd Howard despises New Vegas deep down, and it's very possible that most of higher ups at Bethesda do. They don't see it as part of a franchise, they see it as an outsider they can exploit till they ripped off every cent out of the fanbase. That's why Fallout 4 tries hard to be like New Vegas without understanding what made New Vegas good in the first place, why all the four factions in Fallout 4 suck or lackluster, why the plot is nonsensical mess. Say what you want about New Vegas' plot, but at the very least it is believable. It's like if someone tried to copy Cyberpunk 2077, but instead of good dialogue and writing you copied only the bugs, poor NPC AIs, and the game's disastrous launch. All that New Vegas merch, Ranger armor, etc inserted into Fallout 4 is not done out of love, or fondness for old game, but exploitation. The base game does have some fond references to West Coast lore and Dead Money, but it's long past that. Now Bethesda is set on destroying the lore of West Coast for good.

Fallout TV show is a horrible tv show, both in terms of writing, and its visuals. People can praise the power armor, CGI, the creatures all they like, but let's be frank here, the lake monster encountered by nu-BOS or Lucy is absolutely looking horrendous and unbelievable. If even TV show fans say it looks unrealistic, you know it's bad. I don't have to explain why the writing sucks, MCU and it's consequences have been disastrous for movie industry.

Let's refute some of the common arguments TV show fans use against the fans of Fallout games:

1. Chris Avellone himself wanted to nuke the West Coast for good.

That is a lie and terribly misinterpreted one. It comes from lack of literacy and understanding what Ulysses wanted. Ulysses didn't just want to nuke both the Legion and the NCR to spite the Courier in his revenge for the Divide, there was another motive at it as well. Ulysses is driven by his trauma of losing his first home in Denver, then losing another home after an accident with the delivery of a detonator to the Divide. Even without the delivery happening the Divide's fate was looking grim because NCR and Legion fought a bloody battle in the ruins of the city and outside of it, the NCR was pushing towards the Divide because it was the best route to use for trade and to reinforce their foothold at the Mojave. In other scenarios NCR might've annexed the Divide into their growing republic, or in worst case the Divide would've been destroyed by the battle between both major factions. Ulysses saw both Legion and NCR as a problem because both would not allow for any new nation to rise from the ashes of the old one and that's why he wanted both states gone. With NCR and Legion dissolved there would've been a chance for new nations like the Divide to rise without threat of their annexation by larger power.
Yes, Chris Avellone also mentioned how Fallout somewhat lost its core element about survival in the wasteland, but that's just part of franchises growing and people can change their opinion over time.

2. NCR was doomed to fail because it was spread too thin.

This is actually one of the dumbest argument I hear often, not counting the fall of Shady Sands one, that a lot of people are convinced by. People cite the dialogue lines and the narrative in New Vegas like it implies NCR's fate is to be nuked into non existence which couldn't be further from the truth. Being spread thin or corrupt doesn't mean NCR would eventually fade into non existence. It's like saying it'd make sense for USA to stop existing after the Great Depression or that because they're spread very far their fate is likely to fall, or that because UK has a colonial empire their fate would be to fall into non existence. Empires can fall but identities will remain and those are nearly impossible to disappear. Just because Rome fell doesn't mean Romans as people didn't continue to exist, no the Roman people disappeared with time, not right away after Rome fell, it took few centuries for Roman identity to vanish or be taken by other nations, not after their capital fell.

NCR would've continued to exist even if they lost control of the Mojave, or if they won the campaign, if they lost to House, Caesar, or the Courier, it's even more likely that the defeat might've actually helped them more than the victory and in actuality proved difficult to the Legion since they'd have a large region to maintain. Point is while NCR was corrupt and spreading itself thin, it was far from weak or collapsing, in fact it was thriving off from Hoover Dam, and having symbiotic relation with New Vegas as Vegas drained NCR's resources while NCR was protecting Vegas from threats like the Legion.

3. Fall doesn't mean the fall

Basically the tourists' and show defenders' mental gymnastics about how fall can be symbolic and Shady Sands just became irrelevant or whatever. This is a very common tactic amongst shills and bad faith arguers like how Zionism is actually Jewish self-loathing, "Superman is not a savior, he is a saver" because god forbid any religious connotations in media, and so forth. It's something like Stockholm's Syndrome where a victim justifies their kidnapping or abhorrent treatment.

Anyway, there's no need for long counterargument as to why this arguing point is null. All examples in the show like an arrow pointing at a mushroom cloud, lack of date under the mushroom cloud drawing, the library check in book at the end credits pointing at last visit being in 2277, it all shows that the TV show runners just didn't care at all about consistency nor bothered to check in with the lore.

4. Shady Sands stopped being a capital of NCR long ago.

It never stopped, it simply changed a name and was later known as New California Republic in Fallout 2. One of the loyalty test questions in New Vegas involves answering what was the original name of the NCR's capital. And the correct answer is always the Shady Sands.

There are other pathetic and weak arguments show fans or Bethesda shills use, but this thread is already as long as it is, so I'll move to the conclusion right now.
It's obvious that Bethesda has become the Disney of game industry, they cannot create anything new except recycle their old "magnum opus" that were never great to begin with. Morrowind is average at best, but it had many drawbacks compared to Daggerfall, Oblivion is where things turned for worse, and now we're in a phase where Bethesda cannot create anything new at all. Starfield is an amalgamation of Fallout, Elder Scrolls, and generic sci-fi worldbuilding, and the new content like Oblivion are just the same game in a new shiny paint. Even the storytelling turned for the worse, Bethesda is no longer interested in paying money for voice actors, or to expand the games, they rely heavily on "environmental" storytelling and by that I mean reading terminals, seeing talking ghosts give you an exposition dump, and just quests being looter shooters. Elder Scrolls 6 and Fallout 5 are very unlikely to happen, and if they get announced, I have to ask if people should truly want these games from the same studio that said they're not interested in lore consistency, who said they don't care about the fake fantasy worlds they built, or if the main story was engaging and interesting because the customer just wants to build rusty shacks in the end.
Fallout TV show is a golden calf in that regard, it has a disturbingly large fanbase, and more fans than critics which is alarming. The second season is likely to destroy New Vegas entirely, and to that I can only offer that we boycott the show entirely. Hopefully the second season will be a flop and fade into the obscurity it deserves. The tv shows like House of the Dragon, Last of Us, and others have a streak of losing relevance or flopping hard at season 2 so hopefully this will be the fate on Fallout show as well.
Sidst redigeret af Warlock; For 6 timer siden
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HeyYou For 5 timer siden 
Beth didn't make new vegas. Obsidian did. Think that might figure in there as well?
Warlock For 5 timer siden 
Oprindeligt skrevet af HeyYou:
Beth didn't make new vegas. Obsidian did. Think that might figure in there as well?

Pretty much. People also forget Bethesda's darker side like how they only got Fallout rights because of money and intimidating smaller companies that were successors to Black Isle studio instead of creating their own wild wasteland game like they wanted had they not gotten their hands on Fallout. Another thing worth noting is that Doom: Eternal, or Wolfenstein are accomplishments of studios that are under Bethesda's wing, not thanks to Bethesda itself.
May the show last as long as that halo live action thing. :lunar2019deadpanpig:

In the end it doesnt matter, i know i wont like any new bugthesda games and not even new obsidian games either. So instead ill just look forward to mods such as the long 15 that will release soon :TOIlogo:
Pisssister For 5 timer siden 
If they hate it then I hope they will never remaster/remake it
smokerob79 For 5 timer siden 
no what most people are forgetting or never understood was the fact new vegas was made in 18 months, was half done and still was better then anything BUGthesda could ever make.....
biesoid For 5 timer siden 
People need to stop pasting AI slop on Steam Forums
Warlock For 5 timer siden 
Oprindeligt skrevet af The Burger Ratencio:
May the show last as long as that halo live action thing. :lunar2019deadpanpig:

In the end it doesnt matter, i know i wont like any new bugthesda games and not even new obsidian games either. So instead ill just look forward to mods such as the long 15 that will release soon :TOIlogo:

After playing Cyberpunk 2077, I really hope another studio makes the sequel, or maybe CD Projekt Red again without overpromising so much, that or a new DLC at least. Cause damn storywise and characterwise the writing is good. If only NPCs and world itself was more functioning.

For Fallout the best hope is probably if Chris Avellone was a writer for next game, otherwise it's grim outlook for official franchise.
HeyYou For 5 timer siden 
Oprindeligt skrevet af The Burger Ratencio:
May the show last as long as that halo live action thing. :lunar2019deadpanpig:

In the end it doesnt matter, i know i wont like any new bugthesda games and not even new obsidian games either. So instead ill just look forward to mods such as the long 15 that will release soon :TOIlogo:
Rumor has it they are kicking around the idea of season 3...... Seems it was pretty popular on Netflix....
St✩rlight For 5 timer siden 
Then why are they going to New Vegas in the tv show?
Warlock For 4 timer siden 
Oprindeligt skrevet af St✩rlight:
Then why are they going to New Vegas in the tv show?

To wipe the slate clean, why else? They're going to turn Mr House into a caricature of who he was, insert self-inserts into this story like Cooper, Hank, Vault-Tec, other garbage show characters into this.

Fallout was about how humans aren't pure evil or good, they're people with flaws. Mr House was never intended to be a visionary, or great person, he is extremely flawed, but despite all these flaws or bad side to him, he was human, he believed what he was doing was right, and that's the tragedy and wonder of writing.

Writing him to be in on the stupid plan to "win great game of capitalism" nullifies this character. Even games like Cyberpunk, which frankly is more better in critique of capitalism, humanized characters like Saburo, Yorinobu, Myers, list goes on. In the tv show the characters are not people, they're figures.
talemore For 4 timer siden 
Oprindeligt skrevet af St✩rlight:
Then why are they going to New Vegas in the tv show?

Fallout: New Vegas.

OP pulling a straw.

New vegas was created thanks to Fallout 3 .

Bethesda videogames are used to make games.

The creators of New Vegas , them ended up pumping loans and bloat wages that Microsoft bought them. Not really because it deserved it. Them were running out of ideas.
HeyYou For 4 timer siden 
Oprindeligt skrevet af Warlock:
Oprindeligt skrevet af St✩rlight:
Then why are they going to New Vegas in the tv show?

To wipe the slate clean, why else? They're going to turn Mr House into a caricature of who he was, insert self-inserts into this story like Cooper, Hank, Vault-Tec, other garbage show characters into this.

Fallout was about how humans aren't pure evil or good, they're people with flaws. Mr House was never intended to be a visionary, or great person, he is extremely flawed, but despite all these flaws or bad side to him, he was human, he believed what he was doing was right, and that's the tragedy and wonder of writing.

Writing him to be in on the stupid plan to "win great game of capitalism" nullifies this character. Even games like Cyberpunk, which frankly is more better in critique of capitalism, humanized characters like Saburo, Yorinobu, Myers, list goes on. In the tv show the characters are not people, they're figures.
Is Mr. House even going to be there in the TV series though? (I haven't seen much, if anything, on season 2.....)
talemore For 4 timer siden 
Oprindeligt skrevet af HeyYou:
Oprindeligt skrevet af Warlock:

To wipe the slate clean, why else? They're going to turn Mr House into a caricature of who he was, insert self-inserts into this story like Cooper, Hank, Vault-Tec, other garbage show characters into this.

Fallout was about how humans aren't pure evil or good, they're people with flaws. Mr House was never intended to be a visionary, or great person, he is extremely flawed, but despite all these flaws or bad side to him, he was human, he believed what he was doing was right, and that's the tragedy and wonder of writing.

Writing him to be in on the stupid plan to "win great game of capitalism" nullifies this character. Even games like Cyberpunk, which frankly is more better in critique of capitalism, humanized characters like Saburo, Yorinobu, Myers, list goes on. In the tv show the characters are not people, they're figures.
Is Mr. House even going to be there in the TV series though? (I haven't seen much, if anything, on season 2.....)

I wouldn't want another season 2 by main reason that it's hard to climb MT.Dew.
talemore For 4 timer siden 
I already know what will happen to Lucy.
Zogtar For 4 timer siden 
If we get a New Vegas remake drop ala Oblivion, I wouldn't be surprised. If we don't, I also won't be surprised.

Fallout season 2 is going to come out soon, and fiscally it's the smart move to release a less buggy remake/remaster* alongside the season that makes the game relevant again.
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