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comicprodigy (已封禁) 11 月 23 日 下午 1:00
some observations about some of the political tension within gaming (esp re: female depictions)
i think this a problem that spans society and many issues, and it's related to how the internet has changed the way people communicate.

1. the internet has brought together huge numbers of people. the numbers are so large that even a tiny, disgruntled minority is a large number of people. With 6B people, even 1/10th of one percent is 6M people.

2. the angriest or most disgruntled people are necessarily going to be the ones that disagree most strongly with the status quo (the way women are/were depicted in games). in a market, like gaming, the status quo is often a representation of what the majority of the consumers want. in this case the majority is or was straight men.

3. the kinds of people who are disgruntled and form movements or mini-movements to air their grievances about things like gaming, tend to be in western society where quality of life is extremely high, and so small discomforts feel enormous to many people (especially younger gnerations).

4. human beings are extremely adept at rationalizing avoiding discomfort or acquiring comfort and will quickly learn creative arguments to help them achieve what they want. this means they will quickly learn to weaponize the most sacred ideals or talking points, or even hijack existing movements that have a lot of momentum.

Applying these 4 observations to the situation with e.g. sexualized women in gaming, what you have are

A minority of female and lgbt gamers who were not the original target audiences of games and so standard depictions of gaming characters did not traditionally represent them. Those standards became well-established both culturally and as marketing strategies. And those standards have had a ton of momentum because because the 'typical' straight male gamer has grown accustomed to them and wants the to continue.

That minority of female+lgbtq gamers is large because a tiny minority of a large population is still a large population, and they've been able to come together across geographical space on the internet to become a loud voice in unison.

That loud voice is doing three things

1) Even if it's only tens or hundreds of thousands of people (which is far smaller than the 100s of millions of gamers), that is still a number that will feel overwhelming to game companies when that minority boycotts.

2) that community has learned to align its grievances with large, existing leftwing movements like women's rights and lgbtq rights (even though it isn't clear there is any rights issue here).

3) there is pressure on gaming companies to align with those same large, existing leftwing movements, because doing otherwise could attract harmful media attention.


To me, the underlying problems that need to be addressed are:

1. Weaponization of ideological movements (like social justice) to things that are not really social justice issues but that creative, clever people have been extremely successful at framing that way. That's something that society needs to identify and put an end to. But more importantly, it means reframing these grievances for what they really are: businesses creating things that are designed to appeal to the majority, which leaves out minorities whose tastes greatly differ. That's not a justice issue, it's just a marketing issue. The key difference is that that solution is not to demonize straight male gamers or sexy depictions of women, but to start designing games that can appeal to different types of gamers (including men who want to see sexy characters AND women and lgbtq gamers who don't). Character customization anyone?

2. Vocal minorities are far more motivated to be vocal because they have more to gain since the status quo already tends to align with the majority (so the majority is sufficiently comfortable that they aren't moved to exert energy to protest in the other direction). The solution to that problem may be to teach people to proactively defend certain aspects of the status quo even though it's already the status quo.
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comicprodigy (已封禁) 11 月 23 日 下午 1:14 
btw, i do care about people who want to game but don't want to see a sexy female character. i want them to be able to enjoy games and not have to see something they don't want to see, but i strongly object to the idea that it means straight male gamers who do want to see sexy characters are bad or wrong. that's not the solution, the solution is to design games with customization options, and to respect what everyone prefers to see in gaming characters (and to not force any preference on anyone).
MinionJoe 11 月 23 日 下午 1:15 
I only buy products that I enjoy.
kilo 40 11 月 23 日 下午 1:18 
I just play games and keep complaining about them to a minimum.

if a game makes you angry, just go play a game that doesn't make you angry. seems pretty simple to me.
comicprodigy (已封禁) 11 月 23 日 下午 1:34 
引用自 kilo 40
I just play games and keep complaining about them to a minimum.

if a game makes you angry, just go play a game that doesn't make you angry. seems pretty simple to me.

simple and brilliant
Grimble Grumble 11 月 23 日 下午 1:38 
Take into consideration that this large, vocal minority that you claim is being pandered to is described in terms that many might seen as projection, and that the vocal minority that demands to be pandered to might appear to be your side of the argument from some other perspective.
最后由 Grimble Grumble 编辑于; 11 月 23 日 下午 1:38
comicprodigy (已封禁) 11 月 23 日 下午 1:45 
引用自 Grimble Grumble
Take into consideration that this large, vocal minority that you claim is being pandered to is described in terms that many might seen as projection, and that the vocal minority that demands to be pandered to might appear to be your side of the argument from some other perspective.

of course. it's just one interpretation. but 'pandering' isn't precisely what i was talking about.
Day 1 11 月 23 日 下午 1:46 
I would just like the point out the irony in that many members of the same group who will lament that ID needs to be shown for adult content websites are also the same people that think adults shouldn't be allowed to look at 2 centimeters of cleavage on a polygonal woman in a game made for adults.

Anyway vote with your wallets for whatever you believe in.
comicprodigy (已封禁) 11 月 23 日 下午 1:49 
引用自 Day 1
I would just like the point out the irony in that many members of the same group who will lament that ID needs to be shown for adult content websites are also the same people that think adults shouldn't be allowed to look at 2 centimeters of cleavage on a polygonal woman in a game made for adults.

Anyway vote with your wallets for whatever you believe in.

yeah you can definitely vote with your wallet. i guess the question is: how does the gaming industry respond to that? do they keep lara sexy and leave it at that, or do they add a customization options?
Day 1 11 月 23 日 下午 1:51 
引用自 comicprodigy
引用自 Day 1
I would just like the point out the irony in that many members of the same group who will lament that ID needs to be shown for adult content websites are also the same people that think adults shouldn't be allowed to look at 2 centimeters of cleavage on a polygonal woman in a game made for adults.

Anyway vote with your wallets for whatever you believe in.

yeah you can definitely vote with your wallet. i guess the question is: how does the gaming industry respond to that? do they keep lara sexy and leave it at that, or do they add a customization options?
It seems the industry is voting with their own, and massive layoffs have been happening after repeated multi-hundred million dollar flops.
SimicEngineer 11 月 23 日 下午 1:57 
Most of the alleged outrage about this kind of stuff is borderline nonexistent in the first place. In some cases there's literally an order of magnitude more low-effort YouTube ragebait videos about something than there are original tweets/articles/etc.. And if you go back and actually read those instead of getting a third-hand summary, they're often just discussing a phenomenon or making a joke and aren't "triggered" or demanding anything.
Talby 11 月 23 日 下午 2:02 
引用自 Day 1
I would just like the point out the irony in that many members of the same group who will lament that ID needs to be shown for adult content websites are also the same people that think adults shouldn't be allowed to look at 2 centimeters of cleavage on a polygonal woman in a game made for adults.

Anyway vote with your wallets for whatever you believe in.
引用自 Day 1
...It seems the industry is voting with their own, and massive layoffs have been happening after repeated multi-hundred million dollar flops.
🏆
the agonal breathing of the failed woke party is especially deafening now that they lost their corrupt tax $$ embezzlement system...
Paulie 11 月 23 日 下午 2:13 
Let Raven out of the CoD mines. I'd love to watch them humble the Games industry again.
Grimble Grumble 11 月 23 日 下午 2:28 
引用自 SimicEngineer
Most of the alleged outrage about this kind of stuff is borderline nonexistent in the first place. In some cases there's literally an order of magnitude more low-effort YouTube ragebait videos about something than there are original tweets/articles/etc.. And if you go back and actually read those instead of getting a third-hand summary, they're often just discussing a phenomenon or making a joke and aren't "triggered" or demanding anything.
Quite.
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