poland should really be in there if you're talking about influential european countries

If you talk about history of art & philosophy...

What about the Netherlands? What about England? Portugal?

Oprindeligt skrevet af Espejismo:

poland should really be in there if you're talking about influential european countries

Forgetting the Austria-Hungary and Medieval Bohemia, encompassing the modern Czech lands.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Espejismo:

poland should really be in there if you're talking about influential european countries

Poland isn’t really comparable, it’s basically a military outpost disguised as a country. Its economy heavily depends on external funding, and without that support, it would collapse quickly. They also don’t share the same European mentality; if you go from Italy or Germany to Poland, the difference is immediately obvious.

Oprindeligt skrevet af м:

If you talk about history of art & philosophy...

What about the Netherlands? What about England? Portugal?

The UK doesn’t really belong in that group either. It’s an island that’s always kept its distance from mainland Europe. Historically, it’s been more aligned with the US than with the rest of Europe, at this point, it feels almost like an American state, something like Hawaii.

Portugal, yes, I’d say it definitely counts. But the Netherlands, not really, they don’t feel truly “European” to me. Too different, too detached, almost like a ghost country. Honestly, if you hadn’t mentioned them, I wouldn’t have even thought of it.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Espejismo:

poland should really be in there if you're talking about influential european countries

Poland-Lithuania was a huge early democracy before most Western states.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Arvaos ⚚:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Espejismo:

poland should really be in there if you're talking about influential european countries

Forgetting the Austria-Hungary and Medieval Bohemia, encompassing the modern Czech lands.

As for Hungary and similar countries, when the Hungarian president came to France for an interview, he kept repeating every five minutes that his country is European. When you have to keep insisting on it, that already says a lot. https://youtu.be/-AusxQC7GkQ?si=aryE3rOXH2FIFAbt

Oprindeligt skrevet af Stakanov:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Espejismo:

poland should really be in there if you're talking about influential european countries

Poland isn’t really comparable, it’s basically a military outpost disguised as a country. Its economy heavily depends on external funding, and without that support, it would collapse quickly. They also don’t share the same European mentality; if you go from Italy or Germany to Poland, the difference is immediately obvious.

Oprindeligt skrevet af м:

If you talk about history of art & philosophy...

What about the Netherlands? What about England? Portugal?

The UK doesn’t really belong in that group either. It’s an island that’s always kept its distance from mainland Europe. Historically, it’s been more aligned with the US than with the rest of Europe, at this point, it feels almost like an American state, something like Hawaii.

Portugal, yes, I’d say it definitely counts. But the Netherlands, not really, they don’t feel truly “European” to me. Too different, too detached, almost like a ghost country. Honestly, if you hadn’t mentioned them, I wouldn’t have even thought of it.

I can tell you're not well read on this, where were you educated?

The UK absolutely belongs in Europe's story. Like, fundamentally. Its thinkers, revolutions, and institutions shaped what Europe became. Constitutional monarchy, industrial capitalism, common law, modern science, all of that radiated out of Britain. You can't tell the story of European development without the UK. It's central.

And the Netherlands? Calling it "not European" is honestly wild. That's like erasing half the Renaissance north of the Alps. The Dutch Republic was THE model for modern European capitalism, urban life, printing, global trade, all of it. Amsterdam in the 1600s was to Europe what Florence had been two centuries earlier. The heart of art, science, finance. You think European history skips over that?

Poland and Lithuania weren't just neighbors, they were united for centuries in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. At its height of 16th and 17th centuries, it was one of the largest and most sophisticated states in Europe. We're talking territory from the Baltic almost to the Black Sea. It was known for relative religious tolerance, which was rare as hell for that era, and an early form of noble democracy that influenced later European political thought.

The UK isn't just the nation of England...

I actually left Greece out on purpose, just to see if anyone would bring it up, but of course it absolutely belongs to the real Europe.
If we were talking purely about influence and power, you could also mention Turkey, but that will probably never happen. Despite being in NATO, Turkey feels more part of another world than Europe itself.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Arvaos ⚚:

Oprindeligt skrevet af Stakanov:

Poland isn’t really comparable, it’s basically a military outpost disguised as a country. Its economy heavily depends on external funding, and without that support, it would collapse quickly. They also don’t share the same European mentality; if you go from Italy or Germany to Poland, the difference is immediately obvious.



The UK doesn’t really belong in that group either. It’s an island that’s always kept its distance from mainland Europe. Historically, it’s been more aligned with the US than with the rest of Europe, at this point, it feels almost like an American state, something like Hawaii.

Portugal, yes, I’d say it definitely counts. But the Netherlands, not really, they don’t feel truly “European” to me. Too different, too detached, almost like a ghost country. Honestly, if you hadn’t mentioned them, I wouldn’t have even thought of it.

I can tell you're not well read on this, where were you educated?

The UK absolutely belongs in Europe's story. Like, fundamentally. Its thinkers, revolutions, and institutions shaped what Europe became. Constitutional monarchy, industrial capitalism, common law, modern science, all of that radiated out of Britain. You can't tell the story of European development without the UK. It's central.

And the Netherlands? Calling it "not European" is honestly wild. That's like erasing half the Renaissance north of the Alps. The Dutch Republic was THE model for modern European capitalism, urban life, printing, global trade, all of it. Amsterdam in the 1600s was to Europe what Florence had been two centuries earlier. The heart of art, science, finance. You think European history skips over that?

Poland and Lithuania weren't just neighbors, they were united for centuries in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. At its height of 16th and 17th centuries, it was one of the largest and most sophisticated states in Europe. We're talking territory from the Baltic almost to the Black Sea. It was known for relative religious tolerance, which was rare as hell for that era, and an early form of noble democracy that influenced later European political thought.

Funny how you call yourself well read yet forgot to mention Greece, the birthplace of European civilization.
I’m not denying those historical influences, they’re part of the past, obviously.
But I was talking about today’s Europe, the one that actually exists right now, not the distant version from centuries ago.
History shaped it, sure, but the modern European identity feels very different from that old world.

Bro youre in Kazan dawg start learning Chinese NOW

Oprindeligt skrevet af kind-hearted soul:

Bro youre in Kazan dawg start learning Chinese NOW

I speak chinese already... But "nice try" i guess

Oprindeligt skrevet af Stakanov:

This is just my personal take, not trying to offend anyone.
When I think of “Europe,” I think of the old core: France, Germany, Spain, Italy, and yes, Russia too.
That’s the Europe of history, art, philosophy, and power.
You could maybe stretch that to include Switzerland, sure.

The rest feels more like the extended neighborhood, still part of the continent, of course, but not quite the same cultural or economic gravity.
Just my feeling, nothing more.

L’Europe de l’Atlantique à l’Oural,
De gaulle.

Sadly, with Putin, there is 0 chance for this to happen.

Oprindeligt skrevet af LexingtonSeal:

Ireland also wins this poll: https://www.menshealth.com/sex-women/a28748064/sexiest-accent-irish/

These people need to be re-polled after they're taken on an all-expenses paid trip to Dundalk.

I think this thread is mainly about what Stakanov views as Europe and not actually what Europe was in history. He's pretty much selecting only a handful of historically dominant powers and giving them the label as a “core” part of Europe.

Europe is an ever evolving continent that shifted powers rapidly throughout history. It started with Crete, Greece, Rome, then moved onto Christian Rome, the Carolingian Empire, then around the 1500s in the Age of Discovery shifted into nations with a very strong navy like Spain, Portugal, the Netherlands, England, then shifted into nations who have the strongest innovation like France, Prussia, England again, etc.

OP youre welcome to your outdated views but, as you say, theyre just like your opinion, man.