Linux distros are great, just close but no cigar :: Hardware and Operating Systems

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x 11 月 5 日上午 7:24

Linux distros are great, just close but no cigar

Hi,

After finishing my newest (budget) build, I went straight to Linux Mint. From the info I gathered it ticked the most boxes for an all round PC at home and for a Kid (gaming, study, media...).

I started with the premise that it's not a windows "clone". Just it's own thing. I've used linux a few years back (pretty much noob level) and I'm pretty tech savvy, but mostly windows based.

The drive was totally empty, no partitions. Installation was super easy no hassle with drivers, everything worked like a charm (I didn't test sound, forgot about that). Even the GPU, Intel Arc A750 was recognised and drivers installed with the OS. All hardware is properly identified in the OS. I didn't install any hardware specific drivers, like the case of the GPU that I might need to for certain things.
Got the package manager, chose some apps (even Krita, that was a nice surprise). Steam was pretty much click, login and go, tested one game (worms was small and I was in a hurry) and it worked just fine. Went for some easy setup and details, had to look up a few things (nothing major) but it was really refreshingly quick and simple. I have been away from Linux for a long time, so I don't really remember much. And back then I was installing apps on the terminal for the most part.
Then, came the hurdle I am now trying to figure out how to surpass. And the solution is surprisingly complicated and not so clear cut. The problem? Setup a second user account (local) on the computer.

So, context. All the devices at home have a master account (me) and a second account or user for the kiddo. Computers, xbox, even the steaming account. That way we both have our own desktops, nobody messed with the other's stuff. And the kid (who isn't really a techie) doesn't mess up something with admin rights.

But at this point, I'm not sure I can get it to work properly (more or less the way I want it) on linux. I've read a lot of command lines, moving folders, installing, create special folders, share resources... IMO this is a very simple detail and has a such a complicated (not perfect) solution.

Sorry, but I just had to share this little experience with Linux Mint. Other distros might do this better but from what I could find, it's an issue common to others.

Linux is almost... just almost. Probably 90% of the people don't know how to install windows. And the guys making linux distros expected them to use commands? In one form or another, every linux distro requires you know some commands. I can do it, but I'm not in that 90%. The fact that most linux distros forget about the "common people" will keep linux as a mere sidenote. SteamOS works great, yes. But people don't really "install" it on the steam deck. Nor do they install any games. It's just click. So claiming linux has "these" many more users is kind of only half true.

I'm not giving up yet as I really want to make linux work. Also, won't be installing W11 at all.
But Linux is so, so close but that "almost" that is missing is truly disappointing. This and the fact that the kiddo likes Roblox and it's a paint to get it to run on linux.
I was really looking forward to Linux Mint.

"AH, DAMN YOU! ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ YOU ALL TO HELL!" :D

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正在显示第 1 - 15 条，共 22 条留言

Haruspex 11 月 5 日上午 7:33

Should be simple. Go to system settings, choose Users and Groups, then click "add" to add extra users. No terminal commands needed.

For Roblox, look up an app in the store called "Sober".

最后由 Haruspex 编辑于; 11 月 5 日上午 7:34

DevaVictrix 11 月 5 日上午 7:37

sudo useradd test
sudo passwd test

x 11 月 5 日上午 7:39

引用自 Haruspex：
Should be simple. Go to system settings, choose Users and Groups, then click "add" to add extra users. No terminal commands needed.

I can do that, and it does create a user. Then I get some 30 or 40 permissions. Won't allow me to add a password to that user. But still, it won't allow me to install software because the package handler is on the other account. And can't install the package handler on the new account because it detects it's already on the computer. There are apparently work arounds, like manually moving the package handler to a specific folder. And that is what I will try next when I get the time. But for the "average" windows user, that is more than enough to call it quits. I admit, 15 or 20 years ago I would have been on this 24/7 not even sleeping until I got it right. I guess I'm just getting older and crankier.

x 11 月 5 日上午 7:40

引用自 x：
"AH, DAMN YOU! ♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ YOU ALL TO HELL!" :D

Seriously! Can't even quote Charlton Heston on Planet of the Apes? Is it too early to lose the will to live?

x 11 月 5 日上午 7:43

引用自 Haruspex：
Should be simple. Go to system settings, choose Users and Groups, then click "add" to add extra users. No terminal commands needed.

For Roblox, look up an app in the store called "Sober".

I've read about it but experiences range from great to impossible to play. I know, I'm just being picky about this one game. But I will test it as it's one of the very few requirements my kid did. I really want him to get a good start with Linux and grow up not needing windows.

smallcat 11 月 5 日上午 7:57

Linux , throw it and forget it .

How are the case fans

Haruspex 11 月 5 日上午 7:59

引用自 x：
引用自 Haruspex：
Should be simple. Go to system settings, choose Users and Groups, then click "add" to add extra users. No terminal commands needed.

I can do that, and it does create a user. Then I get some 30 or 40 permissions. Won't allow me to add a password to that user. But still, it won't allow me to install software because the package handler is on the other account. And can't install the package handler on the new account because it detects it's already on the computer. There are apparently work arounds, like manually moving the package handler to a specific folder. And that is what I will try next when I get the time. But for the "average" windows user, that is more than enough to call it quits. I admit, 15 or 20 years ago I would have been on this 24/7 not even sleeping until I got it right. I guess I'm just getting older and crankier.

At the risk of recommending endless distro hopping, have you heard of immutable distros?

Linux Mint is often recommended for beginners, but it's not immutable, meaning you have full access to the core system. This is great and wonderful when you know what you're doing, but Linux doesn't hold your hand at all. It assumes you know what you're doing, and if you inadvertently do something harmful, it won't stop you. The whole concept of immutable Linux systems is fairly recent, and Linux pros don't really like it, but I honestly think it's the future of Linux for normal people like us.

Immutable systems have the core system locked out from changing anything, and any changes or installed software happens at the user level. Applications are usually containerized, meaning they exist in their own little protected bubble. If something breaks, just remove that thing, and the rest of the system will remain untouched.

SteamOS is an immutable distro, but I wouldn't recommend it for desktop use. Other than the fact that it's not ready yet, it's really designed for PC handhelds and set top boxes.

While there are a number of immutable distros to pick from, the one I strongly recommend and now daily drive on all my systems is Bazzite[bazzite.gg]. I'm a bit like you. Tech savvy, but I was a Windows user for over 30 years. I'm no Linux pro. Previous versions of Linux I've dabbled with since about 2002 have been good, but since Linux gives me a ton of freedom, I would often find myself having broken something with no way to know how to reverse it or even what it is I did, and I would end up either reinstalling the whole OS, or more likely retreating back to Windows.

Bazzite, being immutable, gives me just enough of a guardrail to protect me from myself. It's gaming focused with Steam preinstalled, and so far it's been months using it exclusively, and I haven't felt like it holds me back at all.

Your experience will largely be dependent on which desktop environment you choose. Bazzite gives you an option between KDE Plasma or Gnome. KDE is more Windows like, and it's what SteamOS uses for it's desktop and it's my personal favorite. Gnome is a bit more Mac like and is very well optimized for touch screens.

While in the past I probably would have joined most people in recommending Mint for newbies, it's not 2009 anymore, and today, I think immutable is really the way to go for average folks who just want a computer that works.

13119205187913161 11 月 5 日上午 8:00

most of what everyone wants to do can be done through the gui

i just tested this with linux mint 22.2

i created a new test account with standard permissions

i was able to do it all with the gui, no terminal

go to users and groups

add

choose standard for type

give it a name and add it

then click on the new account and give it a password

doing this with my test

it can log in with a password and access all of the files

no need to install a new package handler or anything (did you install one on your account?)

mint comes with all of this already installed

just curious

have you been using the terminal for everything at this point?

if so, try it through what is available in the menu

linux has come so far from back in the day where the terminal was needed for everything

Thermal Lance 11 月 5 日上午 8:11

sudo useradd -m {USERNAME}

sudo passwd {USERNAME}

x 11 月 5 日上午 8:48

Thanks guys.

引用自 13119205187913161：
Bazzite, being immutable, gives me just enough of a guardrail to protect me from myself. It's gaming focused with Steam preinstalled, and so far it's been months using it exclusively, and I haven't felt like it holds me back at all.

I was mostly between Bazzite and Mint. I chose Mint because I like to tinker and figured it was more flexible. I've used Ubuntu and Puppy (puppy was great on my old C2Duo) in the past with reasonable success.

引用自 13119205187913161：

have you been using the terminal for everything at this point?

if so, try it through what is available in the menu

linux has come so far from back in the day where the terminal was needed for everything

Been using the UI only. I will give it another go to see what I might have done wrong.

引用自 Haruspex：
At the risk of recommending endless distro hopping, have you heard of immutable distros?

I'm the sort of person that might go and try them all... Pokemon style.

引用自 smallcat：
Linux , throw it and forget it .

How are the case fans

Yeah. Some sort of non standard 4 pin connector, a molex and a weird wiring harness. But the fans aren't PWM anyway (and no 3 pin connector for DC control) and I can't stand for full throttle fans, so might get new ones, non RGB. Oh well. The case was too cheap enough even if I have to toss the fans but I wasn't expecting to have to buy new ones.

#10

Omega 11 月 5 日上午 9:01

引用自 x：
引用自 Haruspex：
Should be simple. Go to system settings, choose Users and Groups, then click "add" to add extra users. No terminal commands needed.

I can do that, and it does create a user. Then I get some 30 or 40 permissions. Won't allow me to add a password to that user. But still, it won't allow me to install software because the package handler is on the other account. And can't install the package handler on the new account because it detects it's already on the computer. There are apparently work arounds, like manually moving the package handler to a specific folder. And that is what I will try next when I get the time. But for the "average" windows user, that is more than enough to call it quits. I admit, 15 or 20 years ago I would have been on this 24/7 not even sleeping until I got it right. I guess I'm just getting older and crankier.

You can do this via the GUI. The settings should have everything you need to do user management.

Via the command line the process to add a new user looks like this;

sudo useradd -m username -c "Full Name of User" sudo passwd username

The permissions the account has are based upon its rights, rights are typically assigned by adding a user to groups.

By default, as set up above, the user does not have any special permissions. They can log in to the computer and do their daily stuff, but they are not able to for example install software system-wide nor tamper with the system or other users. If you do want the user to have this ability they will have to be added to the sudo group.

sudo usermod -aG sudo username

An unpriviledged user can still install software, but only for themselves.

Roblox tends to work on and off, the developers recently broke it again IIRC. So yeah, for this game specifically you can not rely on it to function properly and keep functioning on Linux.

#11

Haruspex 11 月 5 日上午 9:49

引用自 x：
I was mostly between Bazzite and Mint. I chose Mint because I like to tinker and figured it was more flexible.

I'm right there with ya, but my tendency to tinker is exactly why I've been liking Bazzite so much. I still have plenty of room to tinker away, but not so much that I can tinker myself into a corner. This is particularly important to me on the main systems I use most often, where I need them to just work.

#12

BurakZG 11 月 5 日下午 2:40

Just because Bazzite is mentioned here, I describe my experience with it.
I'm using linux as main OS since 2007. It was always Ubuntu, but when Canonical decided to go "corpo way" I started playing with other distros. I have a second SSD to install other OS. It was Manjaro for last 3 years and I really like it.
Last 2 months switched it to Bazzite.
It looks great and I liked it in the beginning. The problem is I noticed one of the game I play (WarThunder) is performing significantly worse on Bazzite than Ubuntu (on the same PC). The difference is like 140FPS stable (on Ubuntu) dropping to 90FPS with screen tearing and not being able to hold stable 60FPS with V-Sync on. And that on the PC that is fully AMD (CPU and GPU).
As I'm not really in mood to investigate where the problem come from I'm installing Manjaro back as my second OS.

#13

x 11 月 6 日上午 2:08

引用自 BurakZG：
Just because Bazzite is mentioned here, I describe my experience with it.
I'm using linux as main OS since 2007. It was always Ubuntu, but when Canonical decided to go "corpo way" I started playing with other distros. I have a second SSD to install other OS. It was Manjaro for last 3 years and I really like it.
Last 2 months switched it to Bazzite.
It looks great and I liked it in the beginning. The problem is I noticed one of the game I play (WarThunder) is performing significantly worse on Bazzite than Ubuntu (on the same PC). The difference is like 140FPS stable (on Ubuntu) dropping to 90FPS with screen tearing and not being able to hold stable 60FPS with V-Sync on. And that on the PC that is fully AMD (CPU and GPU).
As I'm not really in mood to investigate where the problem come from I'm installing Manjaro back as my second OS.

Thanks. From what I gathered, graphics issues are very hit and miss from system to system, OS to OS and from game to game. Since I was building my computer from scratch I opted to stay away from Nvidia because they are probably the least linux friendly GPU vendor, on average.
That is just the thing. Every linux system has it's quirks and if tech oriented people can handle it, those that aren't tech at all just stay away and buy a computer with windows pre-installed and end of story.
I'm actually rather disappointed to find the state of linux to be so hit and miss. For one side I really like the idea of the many distros and how each can be used in a specific way. Better tailored to each scenario. Years ago I've used Ubuntu and it was a beast, I could do so much. Also used Puppy, quite limited but amazing for my very old Core2Duo. Super lightweight and did what I wanted it to do (apart from issues with my cloud server on linux due to a poor linux app).
But on the flip side, I can't help but to think maybe they should have less distros and pull resources together to make them better overall, improve reliability and compatibility (I know it's unlikely, but can't help it). And that is, I think, the biggest issue with linux. I know most of the teams are volunteers or part-time, but they spread themselves too thinly and it ends up hurting linux evolution.

最后由 x 编辑于; 11 月 6 日上午 2:09

#14