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JacoB 12 月 5 日 下午 3:10
Do you think this is the good idea of offline installers on steam?
Considering this would be cool to for example to test out a late pc port of the old game that has an api in which previous legacy windows support thus checking how the game would play out on an era apropiate pc even when steam client is unssuported, this would also solve the issue of steam being not supported on previous gen legacy windows version due to chrome engine in which steam client is based on, and would be helpful for some steam users as well as for example it is way faster to install something locally through SSDs rather than said mediocore internet bandwith.

I have elaborated on this offline installers and how to counter attack potential piracy problems which may come from it

https://psteamcommunity.yuanyoumao.com/groups/SteamLabs/discussions/2/592911760736277842/
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Hikari Light 12 月 5 日 下午 3:42 
Steam itself is a DRM and requires Internet access.
So no, Steam cannot provide offline installers.

If you want offline installers, GoG is you best bet.

And if a multi billion dollar company hasn't found a way to stop piracy, then some random person on the Internet most definitely won't.
最后由 Hikari Light 编辑于; 12 月 5 日 下午 3:42
#1
JacoB 12 月 5 日 下午 3:45 
引用自 Hikari Light：
Steam itself is a DRM and requires Internet access.
So no, Steam cannot provide offline installers.

If you want offline installers, GoG is you best bet.

And if a multi billion dollar company hasn't found a way to stop piracy, then some random person on the Internet most definitely won't.

"The Steam DRM wrapper by itself is not an anti-piracy solution."

Taken from https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/drm

Steam and other pc stores are not drm, they are just services to distribute/publish games and purchasing them. It's up to developers how they want to protect their game not valve nor steam.
#2
JacoB 12 月 5 日 下午 3:46 
引用自 Hikari Light：
Steam itself is a DRM and requires Internet access.
So no, Steam cannot provide offline installers.

If you want offline installers, GoG is you best bet.

And if a multi billion dollar company hasn't found a way to stop piracy, then some random person on the Internet most definitely won't.

And 3rd party DRMs are the most popular use cases whenever drm is implemented such as requiring always online connection, 5 different pc activation a day limit via denuvo, enigma or orther 3rd party DRMs.
#3
JacoB 12 月 5 日 下午 3:50 
引用自 Hikari Light：
Steam itself is a DRM and requires Internet access.
So no, Steam cannot provide offline installers.

If you want offline installers, GoG is you best bet.

And if a multi billion dollar company hasn't found a way to stop piracy, then some random person on the Internet most definitely won't.

Also you can install the games locally with no internet connection even without any issues by usb transfer when already installed games previously was stored to the usb pendrive and playing fully offline without any issues.
#4
Hikari Light 12 月 5 日 下午 3:52 
引用自 JacoB：
引用自 Hikari Light：
Steam itself is a DRM and requires Internet access.
So no, Steam cannot provide offline installers.

If you want offline installers, GoG is you best bet.

And if a multi billion dollar company hasn't found a way to stop piracy, then some random person on the Internet most definitely won't.

"The Steam DRM wrapper by itself is not an anti-piracy solution."

Taken from https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/drm

Steam and other pc stores are not drm, they are just services to distribute/publish games and purchasing them. It's up to developers how they want to protect their game not valve nor steam.

The DRM in the games works with Steams DRM.
This means you have to be logged into Steam to play some of the games.

Steam's DRM is simply to check that you have the license to play the game in question. This means for some games you have to go online every now and then to prove you are not pirating the game.

Pretty sure Steam know far more about how to fight piracy than you.
#5
JacoB 12 月 5 日 下午 3:56 
引用自 Hikari Light：
引用自 JacoB：

"The Steam DRM wrapper by itself is not an anti-piracy solution."

Taken from https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/drm

Steam and other pc stores are not drm, they are just services to distribute/publish games and purchasing them. It's up to developers how they want to protect their game not valve nor steam.

The DRM in the games works with Steams DRM.
This means you have to be logged into Steam to play some of the games.

Steam's DRM is simply to check that you have the license to play the game in question. This means for some games you have to go online every now and then to prove you are not pirating the game.

Pretty sure Steam know far more about how to fight piracy than you.

Steam and any other launchers are just basic wrappers to ensures every single feature works correctly of that said pc store/libary launcher before starting the game

"and ensures that Steamworks features work properly by launching Steam before launching the game." which is not drm once again, drm stands for anti piracy solution and by valve own words it is not anti piracy solution.

I recommend also reading this article

https://community.pcgamingwiki.com/topic/1075-analysis-why-steam-isnt-drm/
最后由 JacoB 编辑于; 12 月 5 日 下午 3:59
#6
Spawn of Totoro 12 月 5 日 下午 4:22 
引用自 JacoB：
引用自 Hikari Light：
Steam itself is a DRM and requires Internet access.
So no, Steam cannot provide offline installers.

If you want offline installers, GoG is you best bet.

And if a multi billion dollar company hasn't found a way to stop piracy, then some random person on the Internet most definitely won't.

"The Steam DRM wrapper by itself is not an anti-piracy solution."

Taken from https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/drm

Steam and other pc stores are not drm, they are just services to distribute/publish games and purchasing them. It's up to developers how they want to protect their game not valve nor steam.

Developers can choose to use Steam as DRM.

There are game on Steam that don't require Steam to run, after installation. Cyberpunk 2077 for example.

https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/drm

So if you want an off-line installer, then it would be best to suggest it to the developer of said game.
最后由 Spawn of Totoro 编辑于; 12 月 5 日 下午 4:26
#7
JacoB 12 月 5 日 下午 4:26 
引用自 Spawn of Totoro：
引用自 JacoB：

"The Steam DRM wrapper by itself is not an anti-piracy solution."

Taken from https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/features/drm

Steam and other pc stores are not drm, they are just services to distribute/publish games and purchasing them. It's up to developers how they want to protect their game not valve nor steam.

Developers can choose to use Steam as DRM.

There are game on Steam that don't require Steam to run, after installation. Cyberpunk 2077 for example.

That's true, valve has their own drm "Custom excetuable generation" but it is used very rarely and once again steam itself is not drm, this is just basic wrapper which ensures every single feature tied to steamworks works correctly that's it. And the definition of drm is literally anti piracy solution in which even by valve own words via this documentation I have sent above they said this wrapper is not anti piracy solution.
#8
Spawn of Totoro 12 月 5 日 下午 4:32 
引用自 JacoB：
That's true, valve has their own drm "Custom excetuable generation" but it is used very rarely and once again steam itself is not drm, this is just basic wrapper which ensures every single feature tied to steamworks works correctly that's it. And the definition of drm is literally anti piracy solution in which even by valve own words via this documentation I have sent above they said this wrapper is not anti piracy solution.

The Steam client is not DRM, no, but Valve does include parts that can be used as DRM.

Seeing as most game's can't be ran with out Steam running, I would say that it isn't rarely used, but seems to be commonly implemented, though optional.

Valve can't release an off-line installer as they don't own the rights to the games on Steam. You would have to ask the game's developer for that.
#9
Hikari Light 12 月 5 日 下午 4:34 
引用自 JacoB：
引用自 Spawn of Totoro：

Developers can choose to use Steam as DRM.

There are game on Steam that don't require Steam to run, after installation. Cyberpunk 2077 for example.

That's true, valve has their own drm "Custom excetuable generation" but it is used very rarely and once again steam itself is not drm, this is just basic wrapper which ensures every single feature tied to steamworks works correctly that's it. And the definition of drm is literally anti piracy solution in which even by valve own words via this documentation I have sent above they said this wrapper is not anti piracy solution.

You can post your "idea" till your blue in the face, but it's not going to help.

Valve has a TON more experience dealing with piracy than you do.
Some random person posting in a forum does NOT know better than a MULTI BILLION dollar company when it comes to fighting video game pirates.
#10
JacoB 12 月 5 日 下午 4:36 
引用自 Spawn of Totoro：
引用自 JacoB：
That's true, valve has their own drm "Custom excetuable generation" but it is used very rarely and once again steam itself is not drm, this is just basic wrapper which ensures every single feature tied to steamworks works correctly that's it. And the definition of drm is literally anti piracy solution in which even by valve own words via this documentation I have sent above they said this wrapper is not anti piracy solution.

The Steam client is not DRM, no, but Valve does include parts that can be used as DRM.

Seeing as most game's can't be ran with out Steam running, I would say that it isn't rarely used, but seems to be commonly implemented, though optional.

Valve can't release an off-line installer as they don't own the rights to the games on Steam. You would have to ask the game's developer for that.

Actually my proposition in my steam lab post how to counter attack it is by showing username and the profile of the username within the offline installer in the corner of this offline installer window so to prevent some people posting these offline installers on shady websites but also this feature would be optional for developers to implement it.

Edit: meaning if they would be fine with it there would be an offline installer option within the game in the libary to download and if not then game installation would be the traditional steam experience.
最后由 JacoB 编辑于; 12 月 5 日 下午 4:43
#11
Deadoon 12 月 5 日 下午 4:54 
引用自 JacoB：
引用自 Spawn of Totoro：

The Steam client is not DRM, no, but Valve does include parts that can be used as DRM.

Seeing as most game's can't be ran with out Steam running, I would say that it isn't rarely used, but seems to be commonly implemented, though optional.

Valve can't release an off-line installer as they don't own the rights to the games on Steam. You would have to ask the game's developer for that.

Actually my proposition in my steam lab post how to counter attack it is by showing username and the profile of the username within the offline installer in the corner of this offline installer window so to prevent some people posting these offline installers on shady websites but also this feature would be optional for developers to implement it.

Edit: meaning if they would be fine with it there would be an offline installer option within the game in the libary to download and if not then game installation would be the traditional steam experience.
You do realize that someone could just make dedicated profiles for each release with the name of the game and that being the only thing on the profile? Use an account that activates gift cards so and use it to gift games for those dummy accounts(which take like a minute to make) for the offline installers. No real identity would need to be attached to any account in the chain.

All it does is make things slightly more complicated with personalized installers/launchers which also have the potential to be edited before being distributed to wipe out the connection as well.
#12
JacoB 12 月 5 日 下午 4:59 
引用自 Deadoon：
引用自 JacoB：

Actually my proposition in my steam lab post how to counter attack it is by showing username and the profile of the username within the offline installer in the corner of this offline installer window so to prevent some people posting these offline installers on shady websites but also this feature would be optional for developers to implement it.

Edit: meaning if they would be fine with it there would be an offline installer option within the game in the libary to download and if not then game installation would be the traditional steam experience.
You do realize that someone could just make dedicated profiles for each release with the name of the game and that being the only thing on the profile? Use an account that activates gift cards so and use it to gift games for those dummy accounts(which take like a minute to make) for the offline installers. No real identity would need to be attached to any account in the chain.

All it does is make things slightly more complicated with personalized installers/launchers which also have the potential to be edited before being distributed to wipe out the connection as well.

I think these offline installers would be repackaged in encrypted format which would only work with your own account so to counter it for casual piracy making it more harder to modify.
#13
nullable 12 月 5 日 下午 5:07 
引用自 JacoB：
Considering this would be cool to for example to test out a late pc port of the old game that has an api in which previous legacy windows support thus checking how the game would play out on an era apropiate pc even when steam client is unssuported, this would also solve the issue of steam being not supported on previous gen legacy windows version due to chrome engine in which steam client is based on, and would be helpful for some steam users as well as for example it is way faster to install something locally through SSDs rather than said mediocore internet bandwith.

So your idea is Valve should invest a lot of effort in supporting people running systems so dated they're probably not generating significant revenue and make up a tiny minority of Steam users.

Or some hypothetical demographic of people who prefer to run games on "era appropriate" systems for old games.

I wouldn't hold my breath for that happening. Neither demographic is that important or significant. How do I know? Valve wouldn't end support for old OS'es, and would do other things to cater to those groups otherwise.

But they don't. For good reason. And it doesn't matter how you frame it, or play whack-a-mole with criticisms.
#14
Deadoon 12 月 5 日 下午 5:08 
引用自 JacoB：
引用自 Deadoon：
You do realize that someone could just make dedicated profiles for each release with the name of the game and that being the only thing on the profile? Use an account that activates gift cards so and use it to gift games for those dummy accounts(which take like a minute to make) for the offline installers. No real identity would need to be attached to any account in the chain.

All it does is make things slightly more complicated with personalized installers/launchers which also have the potential to be edited before being distributed to wipe out the connection as well.

I think these offline installers would be repackaged in encrypted format which would only work with your own account so to counter it for casual piracy making it more harder to modify.
To be encrypted and be able to work, it would have to be able to be decrypted, so the key would have to be on the end user's system somehow if it is to work as an offline installer.

Edit: if it only works with your account, then it would have to somehow verify your account, which on an unsupported system and/or offline is similarly an impossible situation. If the system is unsupported it cannot log in, and if it is offline it can't either. So you'd have to ship some sort of "verification" file which would work, but since it only works with the intended offline installer, what prevents it from being bundled?
最后由 Deadoon 编辑于; 12 月 5 日 下午 5:16
#15
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