Improvement to the Rules & Guidelines

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Loctarjay For 10 timer siden

Improvement to the Rules & Guidelines

I would like to suggest a method to enhance Steam Community Rules and guidelines.

We all know that "Harassment & Bullying" together with "Naming & Shaming" is NOT allowed on the Steam Community forums, however there is a loop-hole in the Rules and Guidelines, because they only govern within Steam itself.
You are now able to have streamers go and expose Steam Users accounts in order to fabricate lies, create harassment and such different things that normally are not allowed within the Steam Community, but because these people are not actually writing anything on Steam about those Steam Users, then the current Rules and Guidelines does not protect the Steam Users being slandered.

Example, take the Streamer called "JoeBlueTheAntiCheater" on Twitch, or his Youtube named "Joe Blue - The Anti-Cheater", he has discovered as long as he is not doing anything within Steam to start Naming & Shaming Steam Accounts, but he is doing it during Live-Streams or during Youtube Videos, then there is absolutely 0 penalty for him and he can continuously look up new Steam Accounts to spread hatred.

I would suggest that in case, there are evidence of behavior such as this, a feature that does the following things should be forced upon a Steam User in order to protect others against this sort of "Bully and Harassment" together with public "Naming & Shaming":

1. From the bully's Point of View, the profile looked up should be swapped with the standard Steam-? that always is shown when initially creating a steam account.

2. From the bully's Point of View, the profile being looked up should have their Steam Account Name AND their account-number swapped with "????" in order to hide the potentially looking up the account from Incognito-mode

3. From the bully's Point of View, the profile being looked up should show "Private Profile"

These 3 steps should be possible to enforce on any Steam User that regularly are live-streaming and showcasing behavior normally would go against Steam Community Rules and Guidelines.
The way to enforce such behavior is by giving a direct link to the live-stream of said user (the bully) where the behavior is being displayed, or in case they delete their vods a collection of screen-shots showing this is the case together with a link to their channel so the Steam Moderators can look it up for themselves.

What good are Rules and Guidelines when you can avoid them by doing the exact same behavior on other platforms?
At that point you are no longer protecting your users and the Rules and Guidelines ends up meaning nothing.
Behavior that breaches ToS of a platform, does not change just because the behavior is showcased elsewhere, it just uses a loop-hole to avoid punishment from the platform where the ToS is being broken.

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Viser 1-15 af 21 kommentarer

mldb88 For 10 timer siden

I mean from a rules standpoint, steams rules only really extend to their own platform. They can’t govern things that really happen off the platform unless it’s something egregious (usually things with legal impact like doxxing etc). YouTube’s own guidelines on the other hand….

Loctarjay For 10 timer siden

Oprindeligt skrevet af mldb88:
I mean from a rules standpoint, steams rules only really extend to their own platform. They can’t govern things that really happen off the platform unless it’s something egregious (usually things with legal impact like doxxing etc). YouTube’s own guidelines on the other hand….

I understand that, I completely do
And ofc, "accidentally" doing it once in a while doesn't mean you have intention of "Naming & Shaming" on those platforms.

But when you are regularly doing it after dying to an enemy player and then looking up their Steam Profile and starts fabricating lies why you should hate this specific steam user, then it starts becoming a problem.

Personally, I have tried looking into how Youtube would handle it, but according to what I could find, it's more in the sense of direct doxxing and not "just" showing profiles of the person.
ofc, I might be wrong on this.

Mad Scientist For 10 timer siden

Oprindeligt skrevet af Loctarjay:
Example, take the Streamer called "JoeBlueTheAntiCheater" on Twitch, or his Youtube named "Joe Blue - The Anti-Cheater", he has discovered as long as he is not doing anything within Steam to start Naming & Shaming Steam Accounts, but he is doing it during Live-Streams or during Youtube Videos, then there is absolutely 0 penalty for him and he can continuously look up new Steam Accounts to spread hatred.

The sites streamed on or the places uploading video outside of Steam may have policies in regard to false accusations or trying to stir up witch-hunts/harassment, and can/often do hit channels for intentionally doing so giving a strike, which often gives temporary limitations, with 3 or more giving a channel ban/deletion on places like twitch/youtube.

Any profile on Steam guilty of doing such things as well, can be reported via their profile with details included, and can have consequences for the user causing problems for others.

Simply reporting the content on the site it is if breaching their rules may be adequate especially with details.

Oprindeligt skrevet af Loctarjay:
What good are Rules and Guidelines when you can avoid them by doing the exact same behavior on other platforms?

People reporting them on other platforms in regard to those activities can again, have consequences as many places disallow behavior that encourages harassment of others, including sending them to another platform to cause problems.

Sidst redigeret af Mad Scientist; For 10 timer siden

cSg|mc-Hotsauce For 9 timer siden

Oprindeligt skrevet af Loctarjay:
Oprindeligt skrevet af mldb88:
I mean from a rules standpoint, steams rules only really extend to their own platform. They can’t govern things that really happen off the platform unless it’s something egregious (usually things with legal impact like doxxing etc). YouTube’s own guidelines on the other hand….
I understand that, I completely do
And ofc, "accidentally" doing it once in a while doesn't mean you have intention of "Naming & Shaming" on those platforms.

But when you are regularly doing it after dying to an enemy player and then looking up their Steam Profile and starts fabricating lies why you should hate this specific steam user, then it starts becoming a problem.

Personally, I have tried looking into how Youtube would handle it, but according to what I could find, it's more in the sense of direct doxxing and not "just" showing profiles of the person.
ofc, I might be wrong on this.

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2802268?hl=en

https://blog.twitch.tv/en/2020/12/09/introducing-our-new-hateful-conduct-harassment-policy/

Loctarjay For 9 timer siden

Oprindeligt skrevet af Mad Scientist:
Any profile on Steam guilty of doing such things as well, can be reported via their profile with details included, and can have consequences for the user causing problems for others.

Simply reporting the content on the site it is if breaching their rules may be adequate especially with details.

I might be missing out on information, but I havent seen anything on either Twitch or Youtube that prohibits slandering internet profiles.
What I have come across in terms of "looking at information" is mainly described as legal issue = sharing sensitive information about others (aka doxxing)

Which is why I see an issue with this method in general.

Again... I might be missing out on some information, so I could very well be wrong on this matter.

rawWwRrr For 9 timer siden

Oprindeligt skrevet af Loctarjay:
Oprindeligt skrevet af Mad Scientist:
Any profile on Steam guilty of doing such things as well, can be reported via their profile with details included, and can have consequences for the user causing problems for others.

Simply reporting the content on the site it is if breaching their rules may be adequate especially with details.
I might be missing out on information, but I havent seen anything on either Twitch or Youtube that prohibits slandering internet profiles.
What I have come across in terms of "looking at information" is mainly described as legal issue = sharing sensitive information about others (aka doxxing)

Which is why I see an issue with this method in general.

Again... I might be missing out on some information, so I could very well be wrong on this matter.

Harassment and bullying need not be so narrowly defined. Report the content on the platform it resides. Let them decide how to handle it.

Mad Scientist For 9 timer siden

Oprindeligt skrevet af Loctarjay:
Oprindeligt skrevet af Mad Scientist:
Any profile on Steam guilty of doing such things as well, can be reported via their profile with details included, and can have consequences for the user causing problems for others.

Simply reporting the content on the site it is if breaching their rules may be adequate especially with details.
I might be missing out on information, but I havent seen anything on either Twitch or Youtube that prohibits slandering internet profiles.
What I have come across in terms of "looking at information" is mainly described as legal issue = sharing sensitive information about others (aka doxxing)

Which is why I see an issue with this method in general.

Again... I might be missing out on some information, so I could very well be wrong on this matter.

Both sites generally have policies against inciting users to stalk/harass others or do other unwelcome activity towards others, have seen accounts banned/deleted on both twitch/youtube for doing exactly that. There is a reason why even some youtubers say not to go to a channel to cause problems and not to threaten or send hate; to save their own account should anyone following them do something they're not ok with, thus making the activity completely of the guilty party by distancing themselves from unwelcome activity.

Loctarjay For 9 timer siden

Oprindeligt skrevet af cSg|mc-Hotsauce:
Oprindeligt skrevet af Loctarjay:
I understand that, I completely do
And ofc, "accidentally" doing it once in a while doesn't mean you have intention of "Naming & Shaming" on those platforms.

But when you are regularly doing it after dying to an enemy player and then looking up their Steam Profile and starts fabricating lies why you should hate this specific steam user, then it starts becoming a problem.

Personally, I have tried looking into how Youtube would handle it, but according to what I could find, it's more in the sense of direct doxxing and not "just" showing profiles of the person.
ofc, I might be wrong on this.

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/2802268?hl=en

https://blog.twitch.tv/en/2020/12/09/introducing-our-new-hateful-conduct-harassment-policy/

:nkCool:

Neat.

Though I couldn't directly see where Youtube Guidelines says anything about "online profiles", they seem to heavily be towards the more irl aspect.
I could have missed out on something, if I did then I do apologize

Twitch, however, even protects "social media profiles", which Steam Profiles somewhat does fall under.

4D 69 72 65 6B For 8 timer siden

Oprindeligt skrevet af Loctarjay:
Example, take the Streamer called "JoeBlueTheAntiCheater" on Twitch, or his Youtube named "Joe Blue - The Anti-Cheater", he has discovered as long as he is not doing anything within Steam to start Naming & Shaming Steam Accounts, but he is doing it during Live-Streams or during Youtube Videos, then there is absolutely 0 penalty for him and he can continuously look up new Steam Accounts to spread hatred.

Why do you even care, what some "Streamer" is saying on his/her Stream? Ignore him/her. Don't even visit their channels, because you kinda support that behavior by watching them.

And why should Valve/Steam even care? They are forced to react to Harassments/Bullying on their platforms, since many countries require that. In the end noone cares and you shouldn't, too. Doing otherwise is just fueling the flames of hatred.

Sidst redigeret af 4D 69 72 65 6B; For 8 timer siden

Loctarjay For 8 timer siden

In regards to Twitch's handle of their own improved "Harassment" policy:
- Inciting malicious raids of another person’s social media profiles off Twitch

Reporting a specific vod (because the person is not live), giving multiple timestamps of the infraction together with explaining which words was used and the depth of which was gone to in order to find a reason to hate on a specific Steam User.
Well, that gave this response from Twitch:
- "could not identify a violation based on your report."

So I don't know if I'm simply informing it incorrectly or if mass-showing Steam Profiles and finding ways to create hatred towards them just doesn't fall under a "violation".

#10

Loctarjay For 8 timer siden

Oprindeligt skrevet af 4D 69 72 65 6B:
Oprindeligt skrevet af Loctarjay:
Example, take the Streamer called "JoeBlueTheAntiCheater" on Twitch, or his Youtube named "Joe Blue - The Anti-Cheater", he has discovered as long as he is not doing anything within Steam to start Naming & Shaming Steam Accounts, but he is doing it during Live-Streams or during Youtube Videos, then there is absolutely 0 penalty for him and he can continuously look up new Steam Accounts to spread hatred.

Why do you even care, what some "Streamer" is saying on his/her Stream? Ignore him/her. Don't even visit their channels, because you kinda support that behavior by watching them.

And why should Valve/Steam even care? They are forced to react to Harassments/Bullying on their platforms, since many countries require that. In the end noone cares and you shouldn't, too. Doing otherwise is just fueling the flames of hatred.

Well, it is more in the sense of limiting such a users possibilities to view other Steam Users, in order to prevent harassment from outside areas.

But overall, you are right.

#11

King of Games For 8 timer siden

Moderation just needs to actually enforce their rules, instead of just only enforcing arbitrarily when they happen to feel like it. Unfortunately for them i dont believe most will have a job soon as AI gets better at moderating, but its a bed of their own making from them doing such a ♥♥♥♥ job for so many years

#12

Shade30Seven For 8 timer siden

Holy Cow how about we just grow some thicker skin? Who cares what they say? Unless they’ve hacked your account no need to get valve involved over name shaming or bullying you speak of lol. Especially off the platform Valve can’t do anything

Sidst redigeret af Shade30Seven; For 7 timer siden

#13

Hikari Light For 7 timer siden

Oprindeligt skrevet af King of Games:
Moderation just needs to actually enforce their rules, instead of just only enforcing arbitrarily when they happen to feel like it. Unfortunately for them i dont believe most will have a job soon as AI gets better at moderating, but its a bed of their own making from them doing such a ♥♥♥♥ job for so many years

Well it someone is harassing or name/shaming you in a forum off of Steam's platform, then Valve cannot do anything about it.

Valve can only moderate what happens on Steam, anything happening elsewhere is out of their jurisdiction.

#14

KrakenGreywolf For 5 timer siden

I don’t watch Twitch (never have), but I can tell you that the way some streamers bully randoms who offended them (usually over stupid BS) is one of the many things that turn me off of playing PVP or even multiplayer PVE multiplayer games when I don’t know everyone in-game (which, I don’t have enough friends who game-especially not on Steam/PC-for this to currently be possible unless the # of players needed is in the lower single digits, so I usually avoid these games entirely).

Back before I ended my toxic relationship with DBD, I’d constantly see people whining on forums about the game’s “anonymous mode” and how it “should be removed or should only exist for streamers.” Because some people were using it to “grief.” Nevermind that anonymous players could still be reported and seen on the devs end.

….I played that game in “anonymous mode” because I didn’t want to be “content” and harassment fodder FOR toxic streamers if I made a play they didn’t like. It wasn’t b/c I wanted to grief. I wanted to be LEFT. ALONE.

Or TL;DR: I agree with the OP that there’s a problem-I don’t know if it can be fixed by Steam, though, or if streaming platforms/individual games are going to have to use their own tools to stop toxic streamers from sending their viewers after randoms over innocuous ♥♥♥♥ they got annoyed over.

Maybe it’s an “everyone (as in all platforms) needs to do better” situation. I just know no one should be receiving harassment or threats because a toxic streamer got big mad over nothing and sent their horde of followers after an innocent person they played with/against.

#15

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