ignore devoloper preferences and pick versions to run without updates
to elaborate the reason this is critical and saying "we do not plan to allow this" is unacceptable is simple: version-dependant mods
a large portion of games that get mods are singleplayer, making updates literally pointless as most modders already use community patches that already fixed the bugs the next update fixes, and then other mods they add have more content and may not be updated fast enough to continue to enjoy the game

we need teh ability for games without native multiplayer(examples are skyrim and fallout 3/4) to simply ignore the developers wishes and let us pick a version to stay on WITHOUT updates AT ALL(even when we launch it through steam) so we can enjoy the mods we like without having to crack the steam copy protection just to block the harmful forced updates(or other janky solutions to avoid allowing steam to edit the files once we have teh version we want, let alone the trouble of using depotdownloader to force-downgrade the game and verify files to the old versions if we forgot to keep an unupdated copy around)

suffice to say there is no justifiable reason to not have an option to "never update this game version" and a "legacy versions" selection in the same tab as the "betas"
just add a checkbox that says "include legacy releases in betas" then let us select an older copy so it stops trying to update a game that cannot be updated

and no, steam even supports mods, several games have mods THROUGH STEAM, adding the ability to force a version to never update from in singleplayer is totally a reasonable demand, no matter what the devolopers wish

and any games with netcode already check to see if you have the right version so this has no effect on cheating anyway

and don't get me started on speedrunners who use version-specific bugs to do it, making this whole "forced updates" thing as ridiculous as you can get as it has no effect at all on security, something microsoft or whoever can use to justify forcing our devices to reboot while we actively are using it and can't save and reboot(and don't get me started on how microsoft forces reboots for updates that linux could apply without kernel-level shutdowns
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正在显示第 1 - 15 条,共 17 条留言
Ettanin 4 月 29 日 上午 8:58 
A core feature of Steam is to ensure that everyone's installation is up to date. Valve will not remove this core feature.
引用自 GodOfGuns
to elaborate the reason this is critical and saying "we do not plan to allow this" is unacceptable is simple: version-dependant mods
a large portion of games that get mods are singleplayer, making updates literally pointless as most modders already use community patches that already fixed the bugs the next update fixes, and then other mods they add have more content and may not be updated fast enough to continue to enjoy the game

we need teh ability for games without native multiplayer(examples are skyrim and fallout 3/4) to simply ignore the developers wishes and let us pick a version to stay on WITHOUT updates AT ALL(even when we launch it through steam) so we can enjoy the mods we like without having to crack the steam copy protection just to block the harmful forced updates(or other janky solutions to avoid allowing steam to edit the files once we have teh version we want, let alone the trouble of using depotdownloader to force-downgrade the game and verify files to the old versions if we forgot to keep an unupdated copy around)

suffice to say there is no justifiable reason to not have an option to "never update this game version" and a "legacy versions" selection in the same tab as the "betas"
just add a checkbox that says "include legacy releases in betas" then let us select an older copy so it stops trying to update a game that cannot be updated

and no, steam even supports mods, several games have mods THROUGH STEAM, adding the ability to force a version to never update from in singleplayer is totally a reasonable demand, no matter what the devolopers wish

and any games with netcode already check to see if you have the right version so this has no effect on cheating anyway

and don't get me started on speedrunners who use version-specific bugs to do it, making this whole "forced updates" thing as ridiculous as you can get as it has no effect at all on security, something microsoft or whoever can use to justify forcing our devices to reboot while we actively are using it and can't save and reboot(and don't get me started on how microsoft forces reboots for updates that linux could apply without kernel-level shutdowns


Good thing you put "forced updates" in quotes which indicates you are aware they aren't forced.

https://psteamproxy.yuanyoumao.com/subscriber_agreement/

2. LICENSES ⏶

A. General Content and Services License

Steam and your Subscription(s) require the download and installation of Content and Services onto your computer. Valve hereby grants, and you accept, a non-exclusive license and right, to use the Content and Services for your personal, non-commercial use (except where commercial use is expressly allowed herein or in the applicable Subscription Terms). This license ends upon termination of (a) this Agreement or (b) a Subscription that includes the license. The Content and Services are licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Content and Services. To make use of the Content and Services, you must have a Steam Account and you may be required to be running the Steam client and maintaining a connection to the Internet.

For reasons that include, without limitation, system security, stability, and multiplayer interoperability, Valve may need to automatically update, pre-load, create new versions of or otherwise enhance the Content and Services and accordingly, the system requirements to use the Content and Services may change over time.

You consent to such automatic updating. You understand that this Agreement (including applicable Subscription Terms) does not entitle you to future updates (unless to the extent required by applicable law), new versions or other enhancements of the Content and Services associated with a particular Subscription, although Valve may choose to provide such updates, etc. in its sole discretion.

That is from the ssa you agreed to when creating your account. If mods are breaking then contact the mod developers and ask if they can update their mod to work with the game.
引用自 Ettanin
A core feature of Steam is to ensure that everyone's installation is up to date. Valve will not remove this core feature.
Effectively this, if devs want there to be variable versions or builds. They can make use of the feature already available. 7days, in all its spaghetti code glory. Makes great use of it.
Steam allows you to download older depots through the console and it is trivially easy to just copy out the older version, let Steam update, and put it back in or other ways to get around this. Situations where the user knows better than the corporation are quite common and users savvy enough to mod should also be savvy enough to route around corporate meddling.



引用自 The Living Tribunal
引用自 GodOfGuns
to elaborate the reason this is critical and saying "we do not plan to allow this" is unacceptable is simple: version-dependant mods
a large portion of games that get mods are singleplayer, making updates literally pointless as most modders already use community patches that already fixed the bugs the next update fixes, and then other mods they add have more content and may not be updated fast enough to continue to enjoy the game

we need teh ability for games without native multiplayer(examples are skyrim and fallout 3/4) to simply ignore the developers wishes and let us pick a version to stay on WITHOUT updates AT ALL(even when we launch it through steam) so we can enjoy the mods we like without having to crack the steam copy protection just to block the harmful forced updates(or other janky solutions to avoid allowing steam to edit the files once we have teh version we want, let alone the trouble of using depotdownloader to force-downgrade the game and verify files to the old versions if we forgot to keep an unupdated copy around)

suffice to say there is no justifiable reason to not have an option to "never update this game version" and a "legacy versions" selection in the same tab as the "betas"
just add a checkbox that says "include legacy releases in betas" then let us select an older copy so it stops trying to update a game that cannot be updated

and no, steam even supports mods, several games have mods THROUGH STEAM, adding the ability to force a version to never update from in singleplayer is totally a reasonable demand, no matter what the devolopers wish

and any games with netcode already check to see if you have the right version so this has no effect on cheating anyway

and don't get me started on speedrunners who use version-specific bugs to do it, making this whole "forced updates" thing as ridiculous as you can get as it has no effect at all on security, something microsoft or whoever can use to justify forcing our devices to reboot while we actively are using it and can't save and reboot(and don't get me started on how microsoft forces reboots for updates that linux could apply without kernel-level shutdowns


Good thing you put "forced updates" in quotes which indicates you are aware they aren't forced.

https://psteamproxy.yuanyoumao.com/subscriber_agreement/

2. LICENSES ⏶

A. General Content and Services License

Steam and your Subscription(s) require the download and installation of Content and Services onto your computer. Valve hereby grants, and you accept, a non-exclusive license and right, to use the Content and Services for your personal, non-commercial use (except where commercial use is expressly allowed herein or in the applicable Subscription Terms). This license ends upon termination of (a) this Agreement or (b) a Subscription that includes the license. The Content and Services are licensed, not sold. Your license confers no title or ownership in the Content and Services. To make use of the Content and Services, you must have a Steam Account and you may be required to be running the Steam client and maintaining a connection to the Internet.

For reasons that include, without limitation, system security, stability, and multiplayer interoperability, Valve may need to automatically update, pre-load, create new versions of or otherwise enhance the Content and Services and accordingly, the system requirements to use the Content and Services may change over time.

You consent to such automatic updating. You understand that this Agreement (including applicable Subscription Terms) does not entitle you to future updates (unless to the extent required by applicable law), new versions or other enhancements of the Content and Services associated with a particular Subscription, although Valve may choose to provide such updates, etc. in its sole discretion.

That is from the ssa you agreed to when creating your account. If mods are breaking then contact the mod developers and ask if they can update their mod to work with the game.
Remember though, the user is not entitled to the newest version of the software. It is still perfectly within his right to suggest changes to this policy.
Nx Machina 4 月 29 日 下午 12:23 
引用自 William Shakesman
Remember though, the user is not entitled to the newest version of the software. It is still perfectly within his right to suggest changes to this policy.

You should read the EULA's you agree to when accepting them to download, install and play games, where despite your claim of EULA's having version choice (still not proven) the developer dictates the version.

Lords of the Fallen EULA, a game in your library.

PATCHES, UPDATES AND CHANGES

CIG may (but is not obliged to) patch, update or change Lords of The Fallen over time (e.g., to add or remove features, to resolve software bugs or to balance the Game). This will result in mandatory and/or automatic updates and older, non-updated versions may become unusable over time. CI Games needs these rights in order to keep Lords of The Fallen running efficiently and thus CIG reserves the right to do this without notice or liability to you.
最后由 Nx Machina 编辑于; 4 月 29 日 下午 12:24
Nx Machina 4 月 29 日 下午 12:34 
引用自 GodOfGuns
(examples are skyrim and fallout 3/4)

My reply to you from your thread in 2023.

https://psteamcommunity.yuanyoumao.com/discussions/forum/10/3811782223863620590/

Bethesda CAN enable version choice via branches for their games on Steam to enable you to stay on the version of your choice, BUT Bethesda CHOSE not to.

Secondly although Todd appreciates the work of modders to keep their games alive beyond the usual lifespan, he wants you on that latest patch hence why there is no version choice, in fact if you enable mods via the Steam workshop it disables achievements and you break the eula if you re-enable them.

More importantly mods are 3rd party and are not part of OFFICIAL updates by Bethesda as the mod needs to MATCH the game version NOT vice versa.

And finally on both the Skyrim forum and the Fallout 4 forum there are detailed instructions of how to stay on the version of your choice, because Bethesda do not provide an official way. In other words developers force updates if they do not use version choice via branches.

More importantly the developer owns the game you have a licence for and gets to decide whether you get a choice to update or not as Steam is only the delivery system.Steam is only the delivery system.

Examples of developers who do give choice.

Motion Twin - Dead Cells - https://ibb.co/nR9kmfW

Paradox - Hearts of Iron IV - https://ibb.co/cJ3MVXQ

Version choice via branches locks you to the game version and disables auto-updating.


Not from the original post. Did you get advice on the Skyrim and Fallout 4 forums?
最后由 Nx Machina 编辑于; 4 月 29 日 下午 12:40
Crazy Tiger 4 月 29 日 下午 12:37 
Automatic updating is a core feature of Steam. The Developer Steamworks documentations even state that.

If you want version control, you're best of using platforms that offer it. Or hope that at one point in the far, far future legislation does something.

Keep in mind that 3rd party content isn't actually all that relevant when it comes to the updating process. It's up to the modmakers to ensure mods stay compatible.
Tito Shivan 4 月 29 日 下午 1:03 
引用自 William Shakesman
Situations where the user knows better than the corporation are quite common and users savvy enough to mod should also be savvy enough to route around corporate meddling.
It's not they don't know better. It's they just don't care.

The problem arises when users assume doing that is some sort of god-given right and Steam wakes up one day and decides to fix it.
引用自 Tito Shivan
引用自 William Shakesman
Situations where the user knows better than the corporation are quite common and users savvy enough to mod should also be savvy enough to route around corporate meddling.
It's not they don't know better. It's they just don't care.

The problem arises when users assume doing that is some sort of god-given right and Steam wakes up one day and decides to fix it.
The problem, as is often the case, is one size fits all solutions forced at large scale with no flexibility or consideration for the user. I know several games I have made sure Valve will not be able to update to a state I would not prefer them. However, it IS a right though, not so much given by God but by the license the user purchased. He may run any released version he pleases. Valve does not have to offer that version, but he is legally allowed to run it.

I would certainly bet it is more likely that Valve will implement a user accessible depot selection than they will try to make it more difficult for users to run older versions of games.
Ben Lubar 4 月 29 日 下午 4:37 
Steam can't add a secondary version selector with names for the versions that the developer of the game hasn't named because those names have to come from somewhere.

What's the difference between manifest 2997626924962614299 and manifest 3308664160658198041? It's not something that Steam can generate a description of automatically.

You're going to need to use some external tool (like SteamDB) that tracks old versions of games to figure out which manifest you want to download. Then, you can tell Steam the specific version of the game you want and it'll give it to you.

You can't skip steps in that process because Steam doesn't know anything about which game versions correspond to which manifest IDs unless someone tells it by creating a beta branch.
引用自 Ben Lubar
Steam can't add a secondary version selector with names for the versions that the developer of the game hasn't named because those names have to come from somewhere.

What's the difference between manifest 2997626924962614299 and manifest 3308664160658198041? It's not something that Steam can generate a description of automatically.

You're going to need to use some external tool (like SteamDB) that tracks old versions of games to figure out which manifest you want to download. Then, you can tell Steam the specific version of the game you want and it'll give it to you.

You can't skip steps in that process because Steam doesn't know anything about which game versions correspond to which manifest IDs unless someone tells it by creating a beta branch.
Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me at all that this is the primary reason why such a service hasn't been offered. Valve cannot on their side know which manifest matches which version and they cannot offer that reliably to the average user; it has to be a power user thing (And frankly, if you are using mods, you should be a power user or you get what you deserve.). There is nothing else insurmountable or not already provided by Steam in this request. But that ABSOLUTELY is a BIG problem in offering it at scale.
my fear if anything like this is ever forced is going back to the old days

when they released a game and then all the fixes were in part 2

or we wait for months or even years for the next big update

that way they only have to maintain one or two versions

or the devs outright banning modding in their games

why should they maintain every version of their game for the people that have altered it?

as it is, and has been since modding was a thing, we wait for the modder to fix it

and hope they still want to or someone else picks up the slack
Why do people keep saying that there is any "maintaining" of old versions of a game? No maintenance is done on them in the terms of what is requested. The users who want the old versions are specifically requesting unmaintained, older versions of these games for compatibility with their own mods, fixes, etc.

If such a thing were forced, today, by Valve, it would change absolutely nothing on the part of the developers. Valve already keeps all those old versions by default and can supply them through the same mechanism that the branch system uses. No additional effort should be required at all.
Tito Shivan 4 月 29 日 下午 11:20 
引用自 William Shakesman
However, it IS a right though, not so much given by God but by the license the user purchased.
Yet the license the user purchased specifically states the software can and will be updated.

引用自 William Shakesman
I would certainly bet it is more likely that Valve will implement a user accessible depot selection than they will try to make it more difficult for users to run older versions of games.
Considering previous steps on the matter and their ethos in regards updating I'm more of a pessimist in that regard, but we never know.
temps 4 月 30 日 上午 12:03 
Beat Saber has this problem. Lots of great mods but forced updates always break them
最后由 temps 编辑于; 4 月 30 日 上午 12:03
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发帖日期: 4 月 29 日 上午 8:54
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