The workshop star-rating system is not a constant 1:1 proportional for the number of positive reviews, versus the negative ones.

Obtaining 5 stars first necessitates that you accumulate enough ratings of either kind, and you're looking for anywhere between 100 to 500 ratings in total. This is to build *confidence* in the score first before enabling a higher star score, so it doesn't matter if 1 or 5 of them are negative out of grief.

From my experience, any uploaded mod will almost always start at 3 stars, or more rarely, 4 stars, before 5 stars is attainable. As more ratings trickle in, you eventually inch closer towards 5 stars so long as most of the trickling ratings are positive. 2 star and 1 star entries meanwhile are incredibly rare.

There are many earlier threads on this: https://psteamcommunity.yuanyoumao.com/discussions/forum/7/358416640404851243

引用自 XLjedi：

Steam Workshop Grief Voters

When are you going to get rid of the negative workshop voting?

You have people obviously downvoting entries based solely on them trying to either elevate their own, or there's a forum hater who just follows your building and downvotes everything to keep your creation out of view.

Also your star rating system that will knock you from a 5-star rating to a 4-star rating if you have one negative vote in 200 is just ridiculous. ...and the griefers know this, and use it!

Allow workshop creations to be assessed based on the positive feedback and get rid of this grief tool. There's no reason for it, and I'm about to stop posting stuff to some of these workshops.

...and no, I'm not an entitled kid of the new generation that needs a participation trophy, so "GET OFF MY LAWN!"

It operates on the bayesian system.

My point is... the existing system allows for a griefer to Follow an author and immediately downvote the entry so it never sees the light of day. One negative grief vote in the first day will kill the entry.

Basically, your visibility depends on a cascade of "most popular today" and it then goes to "week" and so on. One negative griefer can keep an author out of view, and people tend to be pretty stingy with upvotes as it is. I think I might get one upvote for every 30+ subs. So unless you run some sort of social media weekly game review thing on youtube with 10k subscribers, getting to 100+ votes (positive or negative) is a heavy lift to say the least.

引用自 XLjedi：

My point is... the existing system allows for a griefer to Follow an author and immediately downvote the entry so it never sees the light of day. One negative grief vote in the first day will kill the entry.

Basically, your visibility depends on a cascade of "most popular today" and it then goes to "week" and so on. One negative griefer can keep an author out of view, and people tend to be pretty stingy with upvotes as it is. I think I might get one upvote for every 30+ subs. So unless you run some sort of social media weekly game review thing on youtube with 10k subscribers, getting to 100+ votes (positive or negative) is a heavy lift to say the least.

Since the bayesian rating system does not work solely on a up vs down votes. It factors in other data, such as favorites, life time favorites and others.

Same system is used on guides... https://psteamcommunity.yuanyoumao.com/groups/NewSteamCommunityBeta/discussions/3/828925849481042441/

That's inevitable in any "popularity contest", there'll always be people doing such things. Best to get rid of voting entirely.

引用自 Pierce Dalton：

That's inevitable in any "popularity contest", there'll always be people doing such things. Best to get rid of voting entirely.

I would support that as well... subs and awards seems to be more than sufficient. The current system only serves to turn away authors from the workshop.

引用自 cSg|mc-Hotsauce：

引用自 XLjedi：

My point is... the existing system allows for a griefer to Follow an author and immediately downvote the entry so it never sees the light of day. One negative grief vote in the first day will kill the entry.

Basically, your visibility depends on a cascade of "most popular today" and it then goes to "week" and so on. One negative griefer can keep an author out of view, and people tend to be pretty stingy with upvotes as it is. I think I might get one upvote for every 30+ subs. So unless you run some sort of social media weekly game review thing on youtube with 10k subscribers, getting to 100+ votes (positive or negative) is a heavy lift to say the least.

Since the bayesian rating system does not work solely on a up vs down votes. It factors in other data, such as favorites, life time favorites and others.

Same system is used on guides... https://psteamcommunity.yuanyoumao.com/groups/NewSteamCommunityBeta/discussions/3/828925849481042441/

:winterbunny2023:

So it uses a bayesian system? ...it can use the bayesian system and get rid of the wildly statistically skewed downvoting.

I'm just gonna stop producing stuff for the workshop if I can't get an entry past a 2 or 3 grief voter gauntlet.

引用自 XLjedi：

引用自 cSg|mc-Hotsauce：

Since the bayesian rating system does not work solely on a up vs down votes. It factors in other data, such as favorites, life time favorites and others.

Same system is used on guides... https://psteamcommunity.yuanyoumao.com/groups/NewSteamCommunityBeta/discussions/3/828925849481042441/

So it uses a bayesian system? ...it can use the bayesian system and get rid of the wildly statistically skewed downvoting.

I'm just gonna stop producing stuff for the workshop if I can't get an entry past a 2 or 3 grief voter gauntlet.

1 negative vote out of 200 isn't going to knock it down from 5 to 4 star.

引用自 XLjedi：

引用自 Pierce Dalton：

That's inevitable in any "popularity contest", there'll always be people doing such things. Best to get rid of voting entirely.

I would support that as well... subs and awards seems to be more than sufficient. The current system only serves to turn away authors from the workshop.

Somehow, based on the success of the workshop, I think you've let your imagination run amok on the effects of the issue you're exaggerating.

引用自 nullable：

引用自 XLjedi：

I would support that as well... subs and awards seems to be more than sufficient. The current system only serves to turn away authors from the workshop.

Somehow, based on the success of the workshop, I think you've let your imagination run amok on the effects of the issue you're exaggerating.

You can test it yourself. You can easily knock off any daily or weekly trending workshop item from the top spot with a single downvote. ...reverse it, and it will pop right back up.

引用自 XLjedi：

When are you going to get rid of the negative workshop voting?

You have people obviously downvoting entries based solely on them trying to either elevate their own

People usually only downvote something they don't like, and I find Space Engineers & Empyrion submissions are not as liked as people think they should be when they complain about ratings. The other time people will downvote something is if an individual is advertising theirs outside of any workshop section needlessly or have a habit of advertising thus annoying the community, which in tight-knit communities will result in downvotes when someone does that.

More importantly, not everyone likes the same things people submit or try it and don't like the submission.

In another game I have seen an extremely 3D-accurate & well made submission, but its capability to move is near that of a rock when it should be capable of basic movement, so it definitely didn't get a good vote compared to the others that looked accurate and had expected performance of their class.

引用自 XLjedi：

Also your star rating system that will knock you from a 5-star rating to a 4-star rating if you have one negative vote in 200 is just ridiculous. ...and the griefers know this, and use it!

That means there's more than just a single person that didn't like it. 4 out of 5 is still a really good score compared to no score at all.

引用自 XLjedi：

Allow workshop creations to be assessed based on the positive feedback and get rid of this grief tool. There's no reason for it, and I'm about to stop posting stuff to some of these workshops.

People can downvote entries, not everyone is going to like what someone thinks is golden. Sometimes people grossly over-estimate their own submissions value.

Empyrion is an odd community with a bifurcated workshop that, I grant you, does not help matters. ...and you will get downvotes there (eventually) just because you don't cater to a certain mod. Which is a pretty unique rebuke that I attribute more to players vs. devs.

In the long run, of course, you will get some that downvote anything. ...but there is no need for a system where a downvote in the first week by one person out of 20 or 30 should completely dismiss an entry.

I don't think I over-estimate my submissions, and welcome commentary on how it might be improved or even just "Meh, don't like it".

My point here is, you can have a system that promotes contributions and rankings based on subscriptions and awards without providing the griefer hammer.

Is it fair to at least say, the workshop would not be harmed in any way by removing negative voting? ...and maybe becomes more welcoming to content authors, which I think is good. Right?

What is the negative voting doing to help the workshop?

引用自 XLjedi：

Empyrion is an odd community with a bifurcated workshop that, I grant you, does not help matters. ...and you will get downvotes there (eventually) just because you don't cater to a certain mod. Which is a pretty unique rebuke that I attribute more to players vs. devs.

Have you considered it's more probably that you'd get a downvote because not everyone likes the same things or it's not as good as one believes?

引用自 XLjedi：

I don't think I over-estimate my submissions, and welcome commentary on how it might be improved or even just "Meh, don't like it".

When people upvote or downvote, one would expect small chance for either to actually leave a comment.

引用自 XLjedi：

My point here is, you can have a system that promotes contributions and rankings based on subscriptions and awards without providing the griefer hammer.

Merit of work is to accept natural outcomes, which may include downvotes or not being as high ranked as one desires.

引用自 XLjedi：

Is it fair to at least say, the workshop would not be harmed in any way by removing negative voting? ...and maybe becomes more welcoming to content authors, which I think is good. Right?

What is the negative voting doing to help the workshop?

I don't see how giving fake impressions of something being highly liked when it's not that liked to workshop users benefits the workshop.

引用自 Mad Scientist：

引用自 XLjedi：

Empyrion is an odd community with a bifurcated workshop that, I grant you, does not help matters. ...and you will get downvotes there (eventually) just because you don't cater to a certain mod. Which is a pretty unique rebuke that I attribute more to players vs. devs.

Have you considered it's more probably that you'd get a downvote because not everyone likes the same things or it's not as good as one believes?

引用自 XLjedi：

I don't think I over-estimate my submissions, and welcome commentary on how it might be improved or even just "Meh, don't like it".

When people upvote or downvote, one would expect small chance for either to actually leave a comment.

引用自 XLjedi：

My point here is, you can have a system that promotes contributions and rankings based on subscriptions and awards without providing the griefer hammer.

Merit of work is to accept natural outcomes, which may include downvotes or not being as high ranked as one desires.

引用自 XLjedi：

Is it fair to at least say, the workshop would not be harmed in any way by removing negative voting? ...and maybe becomes more welcoming to content authors, which I think is good. Right?

What is the negative voting doing to help the workshop?

I don't see how giving fake impressions to workshop users benefits the workshop.

How would it be a fake impression if the ranking is based on Sub Count, Awards received, and Favorited status?

What's fake is when something gets an immediate downvote and completely takes it out of visibilty. Look you seem to suggest I have this chip on my shoulder and that I think everything I post is just magical. I don't expect everyone will like everything... but the ranking can be kept positive and still provide that feedback. "Oh... look at that, I thought that one would get more subs."

引用自 XLjedi：

How would it be a fake impression if the ranking is based on Sub Count, Awards received, and Favorited status?

What's fake is when something gets an immediate downvote and completely takes it out of visibilty. Look you seem to suggest I have this chip on my shoulder and that I think everything I post is just magical. I don't expect everyone will like everything... but the ranking can be kept positive and still provide that feedback. "Oh... look at that, I thought that one would get more subs."

Awards received have nothing to do with anything.