Grima The Fell Dragon 2018 年 2 月 20 日 下午 3:48
Fix user added tags
There has to be fix and consequences for incorrectly tagging. I was looking under psychological horror and saw a humongous entertainment game in that category. Mind you these are old kids edutainment games that I've played, so I know that the tag is incorrect.

So maybe a fix could be if a tag gets flagged enough/or there is an alert sent to the creator about tags they selected as incorrect for the game. If the tag is confirmed as incorrect users that added that tag go through a three strikes system. 1st time. A warning
2nd. A sterner warning and a week ban from adding tags
3rd. A year ban from adding user tags.

Or do you guys have a better way to fix the issue with user tags?
最后由 Grima The Fell Dragon 编辑于; 2018 年 2 月 20 日 下午 3:49
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正在显示第 1 - 8 条,共 8 条留言
cinedine 2018 年 2 月 20 日 下午 4:14 
引用自 Grima The Fell Dragon
Or do you guys have a better way to fix the issue with user tags?

The only way to prevent users from screwing around with a system is preventing them from using it.

Three strikes policy? Great, you just barred 100k users from being "funny". Now on to the next 100k that just created their throw-away accounts or want to get in on the joke.
Grima The Fell Dragon 2018 年 2 月 20 日 下午 4:25 
引用自 cinedine
引用自 Grima The Fell Dragon
Or do you guys have a better way to fix the issue with user tags?

The only way to prevent users from screwing around with a system is preventing them from using it.

Three strikes policy? Great, you just barred 100k users from being "funny". Now on to the next 100k that just created their throw-away accounts or want to get in on the joke.
Maybe I'm just not meme conscious or whatever but I don't get the joke. I know why people tag anime vns as horror, and that's because people hate the presence of the genre. Even though nobody goes to "white guy shooting minorities simulator current year" and rags about their presence and incorrectly tags them.
最后由 Grima The Fell Dragon 编辑于; 2018 年 2 月 20 日 下午 4:25
Gus the Crocodile 2018 年 2 月 20 日 下午 4:57 
I understand the desire to penalise all those inane trolls tagging horseriding games or whatever dev they're mad at this week as Psychological Horror etc. And if that were all that would happen then such a system might be justified. But as described, I'd be concerned this system would also issue warnings/bans for harmless instances of simply not sharing the developer's ideas about a genre - any genre. If I've tagged something RPG and the dev thinks "nah I don't consider my game an RPG", I get a "strike"? That doesn't seem appropriate.

Having some moderation on the tags is probably for the best, I agree (to be clear, I have no idea to what extent this may already happen), but if there are punishments to be handed out, that should be done with discretion, rather than automatically triggered by any instance of Valve/devs finding something "incorrect".
Grima The Fell Dragon 2018 年 2 月 20 日 下午 5:19 
引用自 Gus the Crocodile
I understand the desire to penalise all those inane trolls tagging horseriding games or whatever dev they're mad at this week as Psychological Horror etc. And if that were all that would happen then such a system might be justified. But as described, I'd be concerned this system would also issue warnings/bans for harmless instances of simply not sharing the developer's ideas about a genre - any genre. If I've tagged something RPG and the dev thinks "nah I don't consider my game an RPG", I get a "strike"? That doesn't seem appropriate.

Having some moderation on the tags is probably for the best, I agree (to be clear, I have no idea to what extent this may already happen), but if there are punishments to be handed out, that should be done with discretion, rather than automatically triggered by any instance of Valve/devs finding something "incorrect".
I agree.

Sorry, at the time of writing I was fed up of all the incorrect tags. The tag system just feels so rigid, I mean if I want a game like say monster racer what tag do I look under? It just feels like there's gotta be a better way to catergorize games that work for users and creators.
Leyn 10 月 5 日 上午 6:37 
I was about to post a similar suggestion (albeit with slightly broader thresholds before ban, and we also need to take into account all the bad tags *already* placed which I suppose should result in a special warning "you'll be banned from this point if you keep doing it").

To tackle the different issues mentioned:
- about being funny: currently there's no way to ignore user-generated tags (see https://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/17p18wn/how_hard_is_it_to_add_a_ignore_user_generated/), so the jokes unfortunately lead to actual issues with filtering and users need to be responsible for adding them. I'm not talking about an extra super long joke tag that nobody really uses, but tags actually used in other games that you may be either interested in (and disappointed when you see they're not true) or filtering out (and miss out on games you could have been interested in). They are actual games with Psychological Horror and there are actual games with Sexual Content, when everything gets messed up you cannot rely on tags anymore.
And if banning from a store is too strong for messing up with a specific feature like tag, an intermediate solution is to simply prevent the user from adding user tags, but they can still buy games, post on forums, etc.
- about throw-away accounts: that's actually a good point, maybe users should have a certain level of reputation before they start adding user tags that affect other users. Not everyone wants to talk on the forums, so the system could be self-contained: adding tags that prove to be correct (other users agree, and finally a human moderator too) gives reputation and at a certain point your contributions are taken into account immediately.
Other possible measures include requiring the user to purchase/redeem to game and play for a minimum duration, which would strongly reduce the impact of throw-away accounts, however, it would also prevent people who know the game well e.g. having played it on another platform from contributing to user tags.
This could be helped by allowing users with either enough reputation or who played the game for enough time to add user tags.
- about the problem with punishing users who honestly added an inexact tag like RPG: developers, or "tag moderators", could flag the user tags at different levels: approved, acceptable (not what developer would say as primary category, but understands why some players would think that and it could help others to find the game), incorrect (an honest mistake), abusive (a troll)
Only the "abusive" tags would lead to warning and punishment (kick, ban, or prevent adding more user tags).

Maybe I'll create a thread for each point later to discuss each suggestion more in depth. I'll already been reporting tag-related issues to Steam (including the terrible bug where reporting a bad tag makes it look like you added it yourself in your interface), but I may keep doing it... Sometimes it feels like you either go to Steam with a bunch of tags but many are not reliable, or you go to other stores with almost no meta information and you have to rely on a lot of luck to get the right recommendations.
引用自 Leyn
I was about to post a similar suggestion (albeit with slightly broader thresholds before ban, and we also need to take into account all the bad tags *already* placed which I suppose should result in a special warning "you'll be banned from this point if you keep doing it").

To tackle the different issues mentioned:
- about being funny: currently there's no way to ignore user-generated tags (see https://www.reddit.com/r/Steam/comments/17p18wn/how_hard_is_it_to_add_a_ignore_user_generated/), so the jokes unfortunately lead to actual issues with filtering and users need to be responsible for adding them. I'm not talking about an extra super long joke tag that nobody really uses, but tags actually used in other games that you may be either interested in (and disappointed when you see they're not true) or filtering out (and miss out on games you could have been interested in). They are actual games with Psychological Horror and there are actual games with Sexual Content, when everything gets messed up you cannot rely on tags anymore.
And if banning from a store is too strong for messing up with a specific feature like tag, an intermediate solution is to simply prevent the user from adding user tags, but they can still buy games, post on forums, etc.
- about throw-away accounts: that's actually a good point, maybe users should have a certain level of reputation before they start adding user tags that affect other users. Not everyone wants to talk on the forums, so the system could be self-contained: adding tags that prove to be correct (other users agree, and finally a human moderator too) gives reputation and at a certain point your contributions are taken into account immediately.
Other possible measures include requiring the user to purchase/redeem to game and play for a minimum duration, which would strongly reduce the impact of throw-away accounts, however, it would also prevent people who know the game well e.g. having played it on another platform from contributing to user tags.
This could be helped by allowing users with either enough reputation or who played the game for enough time to add user tags.
- about the problem with punishing users who honestly added an inexact tag like RPG: developers, or "tag moderators", could flag the user tags at different levels: approved, acceptable (not what developer would say as primary category, but understands why some players would think that and it could help others to find the game), incorrect (an honest mistake), abusive (a troll)
Only the "abusive" tags would lead to warning and punishment (kick, ban, or prevent adding more user tags).

Maybe I'll create a thread for each point later to discuss each suggestion more in depth. I'll already been reporting tag-related issues to Steam (including the terrible bug where reporting a bad tag makes it look like you added it yourself in your interface), but I may keep doing it... Sometimes it feels like you either go to Steam with a bunch of tags but many are not reliable, or you go to other stores with almost no meta information and you have to rely on a lot of luck to get the right recommendations.
(Squints) Sweet Raptor Jesus Christ, I forgot about this post. But yeah you came up with a fairly good system to help filter some of the joke tags while minimizing hitting innocent people.
IDidn'tK 10 月 6 日 下午 3:14 
The reliability of tags in Steam Store categories search has nothing to do with user generated tags. That's a Fallacy.

Yes, the wrong tags garner displacement with normal age restricted 18+ content into PG filters, and for that matter, may also create fascism ideologies where even Angles shy away at the thought of a discrediting none existent tag about a genre where someone who reacts based on some moral grounds they are so fixated being life or death.

Out of respect for games. You're here to win right? lol

The most useful way of generating the proper tags is to own the game, and create in your own library a DYNAMIC collection for each game and as many dynamic collections with similar genre's.

You can add as many extra tags as you want to any Dynamic collection too. The cool thing about that is when you customize the collection, the Steam Store Tags reflect your personal tags in your library dynamic collections. So choose wisely.

I've had many games with incorrect tags, but because i personally made my collection with better tags for myself I fixed the wrong tags from showing up for everyone who played the same games.

Don't believe me? There's no consequence if you make good choices and trying something. It's just a tag. lol
引用自 IDidn'tK
The reliability of tags in Steam Store categories search has nothing to do with user generated tags. That's a Fallacy.

Yes, the wrong tags garner displacement with normal age restricted 18+ content into PG filters, and for that matter, may also create fascism ideologies where even Angles shy away at the thought of a discrediting none existent tag about a genre where someone who reacts based on some moral grounds they are so fixated being life or death.

Out of respect for games. You're here to win right? lol

The most useful way of generating the proper tags is to own the game, and create in your own library a DYNAMIC collection for each game and as many dynamic collections with similar genre's.

You can add as many extra tags as you want to any Dynamic collection too. The cool thing about that is when you customize the collection, the Steam Store Tags reflect your personal tags in your library dynamic collections. So choose wisely.

I've had many games with incorrect tags, but because i personally made my collection with better tags for myself I fixed the wrong tags from showing up for everyone who played the same games.

Don't believe me? There's no consequence if you make good choices and trying something. It's just a tag. lol
I have my library divided and organized to my tastes just fine. I'm talking when you're l;ooking for something new. Because occasionally something gets incorrectly labeled. Best case scenario? You find something new that you wouldn't have found before. Worst case is filtering through chaff, and possibly doing the do I give this game the 2 hour steam refund demo.
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