Dragon Age series
The Age of Decadence
The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind
ELDEN RING

Baldurs Gate 1/2
Pathfinder wotr

https://psteamproxy.yuanyoumao.com/app/291650/Pillars_of_Eternity/
https://psteamproxy.yuanyoumao.com/app/2184350/Guild_Saga_Vanished_Worlds/
https://psteamproxy.yuanyoumao.com/bundle/26635/Shadowrun_Trilogy/

https://psteamproxy.yuanyoumao.com/app/2135150/Elin/

Diablo 2 is pretty much the gold standard when it comes to random loot, but it's been studied and played for so long that pretty much every build has been done before. If you avoid the super-trendy builds, though, you'll really stand out.

A true roguelike -- not those twin stick shooters that Steam calls a roguelike -- should also fit your criteria.

引用自 matt：

Diablo 2 is pretty much the gold standard when it comes to random loot, but it's been studied and played for so long that pretty much every build has been done before. If you avoid the super-trendy builds, though, you'll really stand out.

A true roguelike -- not those twin stick shooters that Steam calls a roguelike -- should also fit your criteria.

diablo 2 had one massive problem that always irked me about it, there was a bow that was very end game if not the best you can get, when 10 of them ended up dropping, they were iirc a 1 in 1,000,000.000 chance of dropping, because it dropped too often they made it drop 10,000,000,000. when I found that out it killed so much enjoyment from playing the game, back then

as for rouge likes, yea, I really wish they stopped calling survivorlike games rougelike, its not like rouge in any way. ill probably fire up Tales of Maj'Eyal again, besides that one and elin (thats been a want to buy for quite a long time for me and is pretty close to what I want) there anything else?

the only other games I can think of are probably the niho games, cant wait for the new one of them to come out, just hope it stays good. im not really sure if trasitioning to an open world is going to do the game any good.