Quality of Moderation - hypothetical example

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Dimwit Donald (very high IQ) For 7 timer siden

First of all, this is strictly hypothetical. If it wasn't hypothetical, it could be interpreted as publicly arguing with moderation by the Steam "community guidelines" - the same guidelines which are so vague that they basically translate to "moderation can do whatever they want" because every other post on the Steam forums can be seen as a violation, if moderation so chooses. But, thankfully, it's strictly hypothetical.

Imagine the following: you just bought some fantasy game and raised the question if there couldn't have been a "furry" race among the many different races, which the lore would very much have allowed. You are trying to have a civilised discussion about it. It's actually your first discussion on this forum, you don't post very frequently in general, and the last time you had any disagreements with moderation anywhere on Steam was many months ago. Then a person directs the following at you:

"OP just can't seem to let this go. That post history.
The obsession is troublesome and could use some professional counselling."

[They linked your post history with "furry" as search.]

And you reply, as a perfectly valid and civilised riposte, turning the attack on you against the attacker who just browsed your post history for no good reason:

"That's 18 posts containing the word "furry" over the last 8 years. What is that telling you, other than that you're apparently some kind of stalker?
Maybe your almost 10,000 posts in two and a half years would be a better reason to go see a professional ;)"

And for this response, you get banned for one week, completely out of nowhere - no "history" on the forum whatsoever. How would you feel about it? (Blunt anti-furry hate posts will not be taken seriously.)

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pckirk For 7 timer siden

Moderation is done based on thread and post reports. If you have a problem with someones thread, post or reply, Then you report. Block, Do Not Respond back to that poster, move on.

All you can do. Most game related forum hubs are moderated by the Games Developer, Publisher, or their appointed moderation team.

Sidst redigeret af pckirk; For 7 timer siden

Piston Smashed™ For 7 timer siden

How can this example be hypothetical when you're talking about a current ban from Baldur's Gate 3?

Amaterasu For 7 timer siden

Oprindeligt skrevet af Piston Smashed™:
How can this example be hypothetical when you're talking about a current ban from Baldur's Gate 3?

I was thinking, "This doesn't sound like a hypothetical to me"

Dimwit Donald (very high IQ) For 7 timer siden

Oprindeligt skrevet af Piston Smashed™:
How can this example be hypothetical when you're talking about a current ban from Baldur's Gate 3?

For reasons, obviously.

Oprindeligt skrevet af pckirk:
Moderation is done based on thread and post reports. If you have a problem with someones thread, post or reply, report. Block, Do Not Respond back to that poster, move on.

All you can do. Most game related forum hubs are moderated by the Games Developer, Publisher, or their appointed moderation team.

I know that Steam moderation can do whatever they want. What I am interested in is how people would feel about it if it happened to them. Do you think it would be justified? Do you think it would be highly arbitrary and unfair?

Sidst redigeret af Dimwit Donald (very high IQ); For 7 timer siden

Amaterasu For 7 timer siden

Oprindeligt skrevet af Dimwit Donald (very high IQ):
Oprindeligt skrevet af Piston Smashed™:
How can this example be hypothetical when you're talking about a current ban from Baldur's Gate 3?
For reasons, obviously.

Oprindeligt skrevet af pckirk:
Moderation is done based on thread and post reports. If you have a problem with someones thread, post or reply, report. Block, Do Not Respond back to that poster, move on.

All you can do. Most game related forum hubs are moderated by the Games Developer, Publisher, or their appointed moderation team.

I know that Steam moderation can do whatever they want. What I am interested in is how people would feel about it if it happened to them. Do you think it would be justified?

I have two perms and what's funny is that there's a crowd that thinks I'm upset with moderation because I got banned. When I have literal screenshots of me replying to the ban notices with apologies for my actions and overall being cool with being banned.

No, I'm upset with moderation because it's too damn lax and Valve doesn't care.

I'm chill with my bans. According to your "hypothetical", you were the one to break the rules. Don't wanna do the time? There's a simple solution. Don't do the crime.

Mad Scientist For 7 timer siden

Oprindeligt skrevet af Dimwit Donald:
And you reply, as a perfectly valid and civilised riposte, turning the attack on you against the attacker

Theres civilized, then there's inflammatory, likely a moderator in this "hypothetical" case used the selection of inflammatory due to what was provided;

Oprindeligt skrevet af Dimwit Donald:
What is that telling you, other than that you're apparently some kind of stalker?
Maybe your almost 10,000 posts in two and a half years would be a better reason to go see a professional ;)"

Given that this is, "hypothetical", this would be the exact reason. Also 1 week would be an indicator of not being the first few times, but a general extended history, where the hypothetical situation would result in that amount of time being selected.

Dimwit Donald (very high IQ) For 7 timer siden

Oprindeligt skrevet af Amaterasu:
Oprindeligt skrevet af Dimwit Donald (very high IQ):
For reasons, obviously.

I know that Steam moderation can do whatever they want. What I am interested in is how people would feel about it if it happened to them. Do you think it would be justified?

I have two perms and what's funny is that there's a crowd that thinks I'm upset with moderation because I got banned. When I have literal screenshots of me replying to the ban notices with apologies for my actions and overall being cool with being banned.

No, I'm upset with moderation because it's too damn lax and Valve doesn't care.

I'm chill with my bans. According to your "hypothetical", you were the one to break the rules. Don't wanna do the time? There's a simple solution. Don't do the crime.

No, this is strictly hypothetical, remember?...

You really think person 2 started it? In our hypothetical example, person 1 got banned, too, by the way. Do you think it's nice or fair to be told that you need professional counselling for being "obsessed with furry races in games" because of your post-history, which, on closer inspection, has 18 occurences over the last 8 years of the word "furry"? Even if it was 180, that would still be an uncalled-for provokation. The other hypothetical person merely pointed out the hypocrisy in the attack, don't you think?

edit: and yes... I know what you mean. I reported troll posts before which did absolutely nothing except to insult or provoke, and, most of the time, moderation doesn't give a ♥♥♥♥. And then, when you defend yourself in a civilised manner, like it is your right, they may just ban you without any explanation.

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Dimwit Donald (very high IQ) For 7 timer siden

Oprindeligt skrevet af Mad Scientist:
Oprindeligt skrevet af Dimwit Donald:
And you reply, as a perfectly valid and civilised riposte, turning the attack on you against the attacker
Theres civilized, then there's inflammatory, likely a moderator in this "hypothetical" case used the selection of inflammatory due to what was provided;

Oprindeligt skrevet af Dimwit Donald:
What is that telling you, other than that you're apparently some kind of stalker?
Maybe your almost 10,000 posts in two and a half years would be a better reason to go see a professional ;)"
Given that this is, "hypothetical", this would be the exact reason. Also 1 week would be an indicator of not being the first few times, but a general extended history, where the hypothetical situation would result in that amount of time being selected.

:claptrap:

Like I said: no history.

Mad Scientist For 7 timer siden

Oprindeligt skrevet af Dimwit Donald (very high IQ):
Oprindeligt skrevet af Mad Scientist:
Theres civilized, then there's inflammatory, likely a moderator in this "hypothetical" case used the selection of inflammatory due to what was provided;

Given that this is, "hypothetical", this would be the exact reason. Also 1 week would be an indicator of not being the first few times, but a general extended history, where the hypothetical situation would result in that amount of time being selected.

Like I said: no history.

Usually only devs or hub mods do longer the first few times, steam mods generally do a warning, 24 hrs, and slowly increasing.

Previous moderation history for steam hubs and game hubs could be used by any one team to make a determination, likely moreso with hub mods and devs. Devs and hub mods also may use seen intention or post history to make determinations too. So, there are definitely factors.

Preacher For 7 timer siden

This same guy is trolling on the KCD forums, whining about "religion bad" in a medieval European game.

#10

Dimwit Donald (very high IQ) For 7 timer siden

Oprindeligt skrevet af Preacher:
This same guy is trolling on the KCD forums, whining about "religion bad" in a medieval European game.

No, I was asking if the game unrealistically glorifies religion, even though it's historical fiction, because I genuinely wanted to know, which of course attracts a lot of trolls, just like the mention of the word "furry". This is not that discussion, by the way. Dig deeper. Maybe you can find some more "dirt", lol.

edit: "Preacher" lmao ^^

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#11

Dimwit Donald (very high IQ) For 7 timer siden

Oprindeligt skrevet af Mad Scientist:
Oprindeligt skrevet af Dimwit Donald (very high IQ):
Like I said: no history.
Usually only devs or hub mods do longer the first few times, steam mods generally do a warning, 24 hrs, and slowly increasing.

Previous moderation history for steam hubs and game hubs could be used by any one team to make a determination, likely moreso with hub mods and devs. Devs and hub mods also may use seen intention or post history to make determinations too. So, there are definitely factors.

No ban in many months. In any case, I don't think there was anything truly ban-worthy in our hypothetical example at all. It would have been a very decent reaction to a trolling attempt, not vulgar or overly offensive, basically just mirroring the attack back at the attacker with good reason. Would you just ignore something like that if you could set it right like hypothetical person 2 did?

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#12

Mad Scientist For 7 timer siden

Oprindeligt skrevet af Dimwit Donald (very high IQ):
Oprindeligt skrevet af Mad Scientist:
Usually only devs or hub mods do longer the first few times, steam mods generally do a warning, 24 hrs, and slowly increasing.

Previous moderation history for steam hubs and game hubs could be used by any one team to make a determination, likely moreso with hub mods and devs. Devs and hub mods also may use seen intention or post history to make determinations too. So, there are definitely factors.
No ban in many months. In any case, I don't think there was anything truly ban-worthy in our hypothetical example at all. It would have been a very decent reaction to a trolling attempt, not vulgar or overly offensive, basically just mirroring the attack back at the attacker with good reason. Would you just ignore something like that if you could set it right like hypothetical person 2 did?

Generally speaking with the aforementioned example, that in some hubs or even the steam hubs tends to cause trouble.
The best thing to do in exchange is to remain completely civil, mirroring attack for attack usually just means both individuals lose in the end.

#13

Dimwit Donald (very high IQ) For 6 timer siden

Oprindeligt skrevet af Mad Scientist:
Oprindeligt skrevet af Dimwit Donald (very high IQ):
No ban in many months. In any case, I don't think there was anything truly ban-worthy in our hypothetical example at all. It would have been a very decent reaction to a trolling attempt, not vulgar or overly offensive, basically just mirroring the attack back at the attacker with good reason. Would you just ignore something like that if you could set it right like hypothetical person 2 did?
Generally speaking with the aforementioned example, that in some hubs or even the steam hubs tends to cause trouble.
The best thing to do in exchange is to remain completely civil, mirroring attack for attack usually just means both individuals lose in the end.

If I could rely on Steam moderation to deal with provokations, I wouldn't reply to them at all. But like Amaterasu said: Most of the time, they just ignore them, even when reported - and even when they don't say anything on-topic at all. Instead, I can rely on Steam moderation to ban me randomly for the tiniest of offenses every now and again, like in our hypothetical example. You wouldn't seriously say that it was a major insult, would you? And certainly not uncalled for. It's only what every sane person with a bit of self-respect would say in their defense. And support gives you nothing but template replies referring to the vague "guidelines" (which I wouldn't use as toilet paper), because they have about ten seconds per ticket. That's how dehumanizing Steam moderation is. One can only hope that moderation will be replaced with AI soon, because it will be more human and personal than this travesty, where support staff clicks on a template answer before they even finished reading the issue, so they can meet their quota.

Sidst redigeret af Dimwit Donald (very high IQ); For 6 timer siden

#14

( ( < < <20🤖1> > > ) ) For 6 timer siden

lots of non justified things happen around here..... you can always try and put your
point across in a response to ban... and some times that works... mostly the ban is legit
and its not easy for the banned person to handle it.... and thus they look for other avenues
to vent.... i.e. hello..... but also there are bad moderators... sometimes you are
not liked by a mod because they are not a very good person or have issues that not
seems to deal with.... that was a volunteer btw....and i have had a few bans by the
paid mods... so not changes... you learn to play the game... which is.... is it really that
important..... is it worth a possible ban..... can i use my time more productively somewhere
else...... would gaming be better instead.....

mod complaints are scattered all over the forum.... and the usual is.... post is locked use support or reply to the ban and a lot of bans are warranted when you read post histories
which you can do with everyone if you click on there name......

try and
have a nice day

#15

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