无尽帝国 2 ENDLESS™ Legend 2

无尽帝国 2 ENDLESS™ Legend 2

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Leif 8 月 17 日 上午 2:57
Progressive difficulty
What I mean by "progressive difficulty":
I am talking about an increasing, but capped, advantage for the AI, tied to the game progression (likely just the turn count).

This is one of the simplest and also most important features of any (symmetrical) turn based strategy game, in my personal opinion, and I find it progressively (pun intended) harder to enjoy a game that does not have this feature, or allow it's addition via modding.

What I think is the issue:
Virtually all AIs in strategy games need to cheat to provide an interesting challenge to a competent player. This is usually done by giving the computer fixed flat or percentual bonuses on any amount of statistics. Better decision making allows a human to compete, and eventually the compounding effects will let the player outpace the AI, rendering the game effectively over. Picking a higher difficulty pushes this point farther back, but at the same time the early game becomes excessively more difficult, because the player did not have time to build up an advantageous position, yet.

In extreme cases, the AI effectively plays a different game, and cannot be competed with at the beginning. This twists the strategy into a hide and seek, where any confrontation has to be avoided until sometime in the midgame. Objectives like deeds are heavily skewed towards the AI, due to their vastly deeper pockets (think influence and growth bonuses). As an example, in Endless Legend 1 the AI gets a combat advantage against independents, allowing it to swat them like flies. Obviously that makes it very easy to collect x amount of kills or pacifications.

What I propose:
I am going to assume Endless Legend 2 is set up with static difficulty settings, because that's the norm. And I suggest keeping that exactly as it is - no need to disrupt existing design and player expectations. But I would like to see a second, optional, and independent, difficulty added on top. This new difficulty selection would pick how fast and how far the AIs advantages progress. This way, the player can pick how relatively strong the AI is in the beginning, as well as how strong it will eventually end up.

As an example, the AI might start without any income bonus, but get +0.5% per turn, capping out at +50% at turn 100. Thus facing the same challenges a human player does in the beginning, but hopefully still able to put up a fight in the long run.
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Daarkarr0w  [开发者] 8 月 18 日 上午 8:21 
Thanks for your detailed feedback and the proposition. I will bring it to the team to see if there is anything we could do. But yes, at the moment it is static bonuses that vary depending on the difficulty.
Leif 8 月 18 日 上午 10:51 
Thank you soooo much !
I have implemented this in Endless Legend 1 by reverse engineering and hacking the difficulty xml. I didn't bother getting into how an actual mod is made, and I only created the progression for my preferred difficulty. If you'd like, I can easily post a snippet here, since the whole setup ended up being quite simple.
Jedmeister 9 月 22 日 上午 9:52 
Honestly, I would second this as a very good and insightful suggestion. A direct comparison would be how Stellaris manages scaling AI empire difficulty, and this is a feature which REALLY should be exercised more in 4x titles.

*Context
Usually what happens with higher difficulties in 4x is the initial bonuses are ridiculous until the player 'solves' the game to either cheese out a win or snowball harder by implementing smarter economic and/or exploitative strategies (e.g., the higher difficulty is too frontloaded while endgame still ends up predictable - just more of a tedious slog wading through inferior doomstacks).

I am about to pick up this title, but played tons of EL1. The difficulty balance wasn't bad from the getgo, and thus this is likely far from a 'worst offender' title which desperately needs time-scaling difficulty - but I would always advocate for this in ANY decent 4x (speaking with several thousand hours' playtime across 20+ titles, usually on hardest difficulty).

This option would tailor AI bonuses to ensure the start, middle, and end of the game feel balanced against a player's initial logistical limitations and their (usually) superior longitudinal management. The alternative to this, as suggested by OP, is often that high difficulty is beatable but NOT in a fun way (cheese to survive early -- snowball mid -- slog late to mop up)

+1
+1
And then some
Jedmeister 9 月 22 日 上午 10:35 
Another key possibility I would raise: if difficulty could be set to time-scaling bonuses instead of static bonuses, I would advise giving, at max time-scaling, 125% the bonuses the static difficulty gives.

This is because a player will have more breathing room and an easier time developing when they are not spending the early game avoiding 'the super-bots of immediate doom' and have more freedom to build away. Essentially, lower AI buffs early game justifies greater AI buffs late game (so it can keep up with its respective difficulty level).

What I would suggest:

- Establish times for early, mid, and late game
- Slide the AI buffs in increments to:

50% of their buffs vs static difficulty at the start
87.5% of their difficulty-related buffs at mid-game (after 1/3 of the expected number of turns)
125% of their difficulty-related buffs at late game (after 2/3 of the expected number of turns)

Another cool trick is to allow the player to set these sliding scales (e.g., the start and end % buffs) - so they could select 50% - 150% for instance if they wanted more late-game challenge after easier building. Presets could easily be offered which entice different playstyles, and these presets could then be incorporated into interesting DLC events (e.g., especially thinking cataclysm here).

In my opinion, this would be huge. Would also mark the game as a great trend-setter for an overlooked but presumably easy-to-implement feature (making some assumptions here, but presumably correct ones)
Leif 9 月 23 日 上午 4:29 
I can tell you for a fact that progressive difficulty is easy to implement. I did it myself in both Endless Legend 1 and WH40k: Gladius via modding. Don't bother looking for the mods, though, as I never made anything more than hacks for me and friends. (Let me know if anybody wants them, though.) I would happily leave the details to the devs, as they know far better how to integrate such an option smoothly.

I would like to add on that this is not a catch all to fix bad AI. For me it vastly improves the game experience in any case, but critical issues my still arise. Case in point: The AI in Endless Legend 1 is utterly incapable of fighting a late game war. Both because it cannot handle startegic movement (primarily: reinforcement mechanics), and because it doesn't know how to handle the apocalyptic threat of a Gios, for example.
Kael  [开发者] 9 月 24 日 上午 2:24 
I think this is a good idea. I did it for another game where I had increasing difficult exactly as you describe as well as an "Adaptive Difficulty" where the difficulty changed based on the players rank (if he was doing well it got harder, if he was doing poorly it got easier). I'll talk to the team about adding something like you describe to Endless Legend 2. Thanks for the feedback.
Jedmeister 10 月 22 日 上午 9:34 
引用自 Kael
I think this is a good idea. I did it for another game where I had increasing difficult exactly as you describe as well as an "Adaptive Difficulty" where the difficulty changed based on the players rank (if he was doing well it got harder, if he was doing poorly it got easier). I'll talk to the team about adding something like you describe to Endless Legend 2. Thanks for the feedback.

'Adaptive difficulty' as described = yes please!
Bramhar 10 月 22 日 上午 10:48 
Like Stellaris.
最后由 Bramhar 编辑于; 10 月 22 日 上午 10:49
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