To be honest, I didn't think that people would want to 100% the achievements when I made those. :)

Are you kidding? Getting 100% achievements is a major goal for some people.

Just got Hive-B-Gone playing an Abyss mission. I just kept restarting until I got a mutation that I 'wanted'.

I got Guardians first but ugh, that was awful. Ended up quitting. Four hives in a tight formation are pretty impregnable. I have to agree that Guardians need a tweak. I had three snipers and was just able to kill all the guardians on one isolated nest covered in mines to soften them up, and they a second later they all respawn and kill off my nearly dead snipers and medic. Fast respawn, huge range, super agressive, fast, and tough. Immune to gernades too!

Enough for me anyway, I'll give up on the achivement quest at least until after teh update, maybe I'll get lucky and it will just happen or they will get replaced with something less luck based. :-)

@Ionizer: Manually control the snipers next time. It *might* help. But I think I would give up on a group of 4 guardian hives too. I think I did it once with a group of 3 but I'm not sure.

@RocketBearGames: You know there are clubs for people who 100% games, right? The story I read was about xbox achievement hunters because they awarded points towards a global score, so it was more popular of a thing to do. People in the club would buy any game they could get their hands on as long as it gave them achievement points (it didn't matter how bad), then they would mail them to other people in the club. They would round-robin the games so everyone could get the achievement points for the most efficient money spent. There are people who have 100% hundreds of games just to be able to say they've done it.

Put an achievement in there and people WILL try to get it. Heck, I'm probably going to try for the achievements eventually just because I know on this game I'm closer to getting all of them than in most of my Steam games.

I always manually control snipers. They simply can't kill Guardians fast enough before they all respawn unless you have a lot of snipers. Guardians really screw you if you get them early,and often later too. :-)

EDIT: It greatly depends on the size of the hive. A hive with three towers is pretty easy to take out with a pair of snipers, no problem. A hive on Abyss or Terminus difficulty that has 12 guardians is pretty much unkillable if you are just starting out, and a pair of them (or worse) is a tough nut to crack unless you have a ton of BP and time. ALone it's doable, but forget it if you have any other pressures like clone or burrowing tower attacks.

Just got the clone achivement, so the ONLY one left is guardian... that's not goign to happen unless I just get lucky some day. Trying to roll an Abyss level with guardians as teh 1st mutation is rough. Tried twice, gave up both times due to BAD disables. The 2nd try greyed out snipers!

引用自 Troppamus：

@RocketBearGames: You know there are clubs for people who 100% games, right? The story I read was about xbox achievement hunters because they awarded points towards a global score, so it was more popular of a thing to do. People in the club would buy any game they could get their hands on as long as it gave them achievement points (it didn't matter how bad), then they would mail them to other people in the club. They would round-robin the games so everyone could get the achievement points for the most efficient money spent. There are people who have 100% hundreds of games just to be able to say they've done it.

Put an achievement in there and people WILL try to get it. Heck, I'm probably going to try for the achievements eventually just because I know on this game I'm closer to getting all of them than in most of my Steam games.

Oh, I know that people would buy Dino Twinkle Adventure or whatnot because it gives easy points, I just don't think that designing towards that mindset is the best idea.

引用自 RocketBearGames：

Oh, I know that people would buy Dino Twinkle Adventure or whatnot because it gives easy points, I just don't think that designing towards that mindset is the best idea.

I don't think anyone is asking that the game or every single achivement be made easy. It wouldn't be as fun if it were easy. Maybe a LITTLE easier might be good for my enjoyment, but for every person who says it's too hard you will find others to agrue it needs to be made harder, so I think right now it's pretty close to the mark for a game that is supposed to be difficult. Tons of fun and challenge.

My point was achivements should be hard, not tedious. These three (got two of them now, see my edit above) are annoying because it doesn't matter how skilled you are... it's totally random. Somone could get Guards randomly on an easy random capture map, but I have won played probably, oh, half a dozen Abyss levels without it showing up. (Except when I forced it by re-rolling Abyss games until I got one at the start but those ended badly, and took a LOT of clicking restarting levels. Yawn.)

I just want that last achivement darnit, and no matter how skilled I am, there is just no way to get it other than dumb luck. Thats the frustrating part. The rest of the game is the fun part. :)

I hate myself sometimes. I rolled random Abyss capture maps until I got a Guardian mutation for the first one again, and this time I managed to win it.

Yay. Got that last one. That felt good. :)

http://psteamcommunity.yuanyoumao.com/id/ionizer/screenshot/884128903867837975

This is the map I got. Look, a SIege Cannon right on top of my base. Almost quit right there but it took me 5 minutes of restarting Abyss levels until I got a Guardian mutation so I stuck it out. I just parked a Scout next to it and gernaded it whenever it respawned while I ran around collecting all the extra BP, killing off extra nests and finally hitting that hive at the very right. That gave me enough BP to take on those two guardian nests next to each other.

I 'cheated' though by buying two more marines, a heavy and a medic from the store. A good thing too because my medic class was disabled! Trying to take out pairs of hives with 22 guardians without medics would have sucked a lot.

For pairs of hives I was using three snipers and a medic and the heavy to poke anything that got too close, and mines, lots of mines to kill stuff. New for me, never used them before.

Just a long slog, preying I didn't get TOO many bad mutations. Ended up with this...

http://psteamcommunity.yuanyoumao.com/id/ionizer/screenshot/884128903867986035

No Burrowing Hive, but did get two mini-hives that spawned but were not too hard to take care of on an open map like this. No Spitters either, which always give me fits. Got lucky for once. :)

Ok, time to take a break until the update. Looking forward to it.

:)

I think that I see your point - if you were trying to 100% the achievements, then those 3 would be somewhat annoying. I was thinking of them more as things that you pick up while doing other stuff, not something you aim for.

Let me think if there's a way to make achievement hunters happy.

I suspect if the achivements had been in the game from the start I might have had them already, but I finished most of the game before that so all the random capture games I played before never counted.

You know... an option might be to have the game itself start throwing those mutations in on purpose if you don't have the achivement yet. Or at least adjust the odds a bit in their favor.

Could backfire though... "Why do I ALWAYS get these horrible mutations in every damn game?!?!?"

They are certainly doable on purpose, but Abyss with Guardians right off the bat was one of the harder things this game has thrown at me.

Hmm, any use for money in the future? I never actually spent any of it and have like 4 million sitting around. :)

Hmm, maybe a new shop item... buy a mutation and it is guarenteed to show up in the next game somewhere.

The money doesn't have use after finishing the campaign - it's there for players who are slogging through. Once you have everything, you beat the game. :)

DUDE DUDE. PROBLEM SOLVED RIGHT HERE.
Spend a hundred thousand dollars or even two hundred thousand dollars and you get to pick which of the nasty mutations you get on your map (only one though, the rest are random). One map use only. This ability only unlocks after you finish the campaign. That mutation could be anywhere in the lineup, but you know it WILL be there.

I swear I've gotten guardians on whatever the difficulty is below Abyss. I would have all of the mutation achievements already if it had been tracking them a month or two ago :P

Oh you can certainly get those mutations on less than Abyss. What Abyss has going for it is it starts with a mutation, so you can keep quitting and restaring Abyss games until you get the mutation you want. Then you just have to beat the level!

Necro'ing this to see if there's been any changes. I just need the "Guard Slayer" achievement (win a capture map with the Guardians mutation). The problem is that I can't get the achievement.

I started Terminus 50 times in a row, getting 2 mutations each time, and while I got Guardian Nest once, I never saw Guardians. Also only saw Protohive once. So it feels like some mutations are rarer than others, but out of 100 possible mutations, I would've expected Guardians to appear at least once.

I tried a custom skirmish match where I forced guardians to be the only mutation, and it did appear, but I didn't get the achievement when I won.

Is there a better way to achieve this?

If you're achievement hunting, then Terminus might not be the best difficulty level. Since it has adaptive mutations, it's possible that whatever you're doing is making guardians less probable. Try the ruins or abyss difficulty - it has guardians as a possible mutation.

Guardians can only show up as the 3rd mutation and later. So, if you're wanting to save time you could just run the early part of ruins until it appears.

I guess another way is to try to lure Terminus mode to throwing up guardians. Having snipers on your team or lots of shotgunners helps, as does the helicopter.

So it's not possible for one of the first two mutations on Terminus to be Guardians? That would've been nice to know before I restarted it 50 times. =P

Not seeing it in other playthroughs makes a lot of sense, though, since I never use snipers, and only very rarely use shotguns or the helicopter.

Is the chance of seeing it in Ruins or Abyss equally random (as likely to see it as Neurotoxins or similar)?

Or, to rephrase, am I roughly better off grinding Abyss over and over with my preferred flamer/minigun combo, or should I go play Terminus with as many shotguns as I can manage?